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Accucraft SP F4/F5 Looking good

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main131

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Saw one of these in steam last week on a friends railway here in the UK.
It ran well on it's first run following a couple of minor adjustmets. I was suitably impressed so I now have one on order!
Can I ask the experts the difference between an F4 and an F5. I have specified the F4 on my order as the Accucraft website is a bit vague on the ID.

This is a video of the one I saw running

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiWCaUbkLAE

And picture

Image
 
#2 ·
The only difference I am aware of is the F5 I think it is, has the clamshell stack cover. If there are any others, I'm sure you'll hear
 
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#8 ·
Main131:
Your's is a F4 ;-))


Some time ago trying to decide between an F4/F5 and a K-36 I noticed three* differences between the F4 and F5:


F5:
0. #3765
1. Clam shell Stack
2. Smokebox front hand rail is squared off under the head lamp
3. Starboard running board step-up portion is longer than F4


F4:
0. #3680
1. Straight Stack
2. Smokebox front hand rail is rounded under the headlamp
3. Starboard running board step-up portion is shorter than F5





* Zero (0) is not a number and therefore not counted.

PS: I preferred the F5 over the F4 and K-36.
 
Discussion starter · #10 ·
Thanks Chris for information.
As you know Accucraft list both on their web site although the prices are the same.

I am not unhappy about the gas firing.
A sprit fired version as well as gas would I suspect make the manufacturing a bit too expensive. (plus the cost of a fire extingwisher that is mandatory with spirit fired engines....just a joke!
 
#11 ·
Posted By main131 on 17 Apr 2010 04:03 AM
Thanks Chris for information.
As you know Accucraft list both on their web site although the prices are the same.

I am not unhappy about the gas firing.
A sprit fired version as well as gas would I suspect make the manufacturing a bit too expensive. (plus the cost of a fire extingwisher that is mandatory with spirit fired engines....just a joke!

However, they did it for the Royal Hudson!
I'm sure that to make the boiler both ways would not be any different in cost.
The cost of a gas tank or an alcohol tank must be similar.
A wick burner is probably less expensive than gas burner.
It would be interesting to know if there is any real difference in total.
As they are not building thousands at a time, I'm sure that there is probably no savings in volume either.
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada
 
#12 ·
Posted By David Leech on 17 Apr 2010 10:47 AM
Posted By main131 on 17 Apr 2010 04:03 AM
Thanks Chris for information.
As you know Accucraft list both on their web site although the prices are the same.

I am not unhappy about the gas firing.
A sprit fired version as well as gas would I suspect make the manufacturing a bit too expensive. (plus the cost of a fire extingwisher that is mandatory with spirit fired engines....just a joke!

However, they did it for the Royal Hudson!
I'm sure that to make the boiler both ways would not be any different in cost.
The cost of a gas tank or an alcohol tank must be similar.
A wick burner is probably less expensive than gas burner.
It would be interesting to know if there is any real difference in total.
As they are not building thousands at a time, I'm sure that there is probably no savings in volume either.
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada

David:
I think an alcohol boiler would easily take more work to make and cost more than a gas boiler. F4/F5 boiler; a gas boiler would be just a copper pipe with two flue tubes and a few bushings. The alcohol boiler would have several smaller fire tubes (how many, 4, 5, 6?), a fire box with cross pipes (stays?). The alcohol boiler has a sealed smokebox, blower piping and the backhead has more parts with the blower and all. A gas boiler has a simpler open smokebox. The alky fire tubes alone from the posts/threads of those who have made their own boilers definitley showed it takes more to make a alcohol or coal boiler than a gas boiler.

It mostly comes down to labor costs, the most expensive part of making most anything. Even making only fifty or a hundred boilers, the simplicity of the construction will complound labor savings as testing and quality control will be easier.
A gas boiler with two flue tube will have 6 solder joints (2 boiler cap and each flue to cap (4)). An alcohol boiler with 5 tubes and boiler caps has 12 identical solder joint points, plus others as well. More fire tubesm, more solder joints and quality control points. Similarly for the differences between the fuel tnaks. The materials may be closer in costs than this shows for the labor, etc.

Maybe someone can comment of the Accucraft. Dick Abbot's Hundson alcohol versus gas fired construction and costs.
 
#13 ·
Nothwithstanding the boiler design differences, I bleeve that the complexities [and costs] of producing the pressure gas tank, associated piping and unions and various valves, as well as a the good- old double poker burner, are balanced by the need to have a slightly different boiler with a blower.

AccuCraft must think so - the two different types of firing are priced the same.

tac
www.ovgrs.org
 
#14 ·
Actually they could do one boiler setup for dual fuel: alcohol/butane- along with improvement of the gas burners (both in noise and utilization- no more trying to keep lit two burners) with a ceramic burner block that could be interchange with a wick setup. Not certain that it would be a cost savings to the company/customer given two different fuel tanks and lines but the customer could have the option to fire either way.
 
#16 ·
I have often wondered about the safety issue with alcohol. If the engine derails and tips over; what is the likelihood of the fuel catching on fire? I've had my 4-4-0 take a spill off a 1 foot high trestle at Chrisps house and the flame goes out and only gas escapes.
In a similar situation would the alcohol spill out and ignite the areas around the fallen engine?
 
#19 ·
Posted By rkapuaala on 22 Apr 2010 12:12 PM
I have often wondered about the safety issue with alcohol. If the engine derails and tips over; what is the likelihood of the fuel catching on fire? I've had my 4-4-0 take a spill off a 1 foot high trestle at Chrisps house and the flame goes out and only gas escapes.
In a similar situation would the alcohol spill out and ignite the areas around the fallen engine?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------







We had an Aster Daylight with a full consist of cars running at speed pick a switch and plow head on into a parked Accucraft 3 cylinder shay causing both to fly off my elevated track. A very nasty sound and sight to behold. Burning alcohol from the Aster splattered about the ground and rocks where it landed on its side below. The shay got the worst of it. It looked like a tank had hit it, being broken into three parts. The Daylight had a small piece (rod) of its valve gear break off and its draw bar get bent into a "L" shape. This was caused by the force from the weight of cars being pulled pushing into the back of the cab on impact. The Daylight is fine, and while the shay was put back together she does run a little "catywhompus" now.

So, yes..............alcohol can splatter out and ignite.
 
#20 ·
Posted By Charles on 22 Apr 2010 05:03 AM
Actually they could do one boiler setup for dual fuel: alcohol/butane- along with improvement of the gas burners (both in noise and utilization- no more trying to keep lit two burners) with a ceramic burner block that could be interchange with a wick setup. Not certain that it would be a cost savings to the company/customer given two different fuel tanks and lines but the customer could have the option to fire either way.

Charles:
I've not heard of any G&A duel fuel locos. Coal and Alcohol, Coal and Gas, yes. Soutnern Steam Trans Aster Roster lists, if they are duel fuel, their haveing only one of the latter two. Might just be one of those, sounds good but the devil is in the details.
 
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