G Scale Model Train Forum banner
Cancel
Create thread New Forums

Need Transformer Recommendations

Jump to Latest
21 - 40 of 52 Posts
#21 ·
Posted By toddalin on 12 Jan 2010 10:52 AM
Posted By krs on 12 Jan 2010 10:45 AM
Seems the "bigger is better" idea has found it's way into this thread.
Using, actually even marketing, a 25 amp supply to run a single train is totally ridiculous.
And that's all you can control with a basic analog set up - one train.






No, you can power as many trains at once as the power pack will support. We run seven trains simultaneously on two or three power packs, but never get close to the 10 amp fuse rating (16.7 amp transformer ratings) on any of the packs.



How do you control each train individually if you only have one throttle?
 
#22 ·
Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 12 Jan 2010 11:07 AM

Id like to know what kind of train you run that has 12 lighted passenger cars and pulls less than 3 amps with an engine. never seen it and never heard of one, Unless of course you modified them in some way and there not stock anymore........... LEDs maybe




No - all stock LGB right out of the box.

Engine is an RhB Ge 4/4 III with two motor blocks and sound, all the cars are the long lit RhB passenger cars with standard ball-bearing wheelsets and 5 volt incandescent lighting. Power was a 5 amp switching supply connected to the old TE throttle, current was just below 3 amp going up a 3.5% incline which was the worst case.

Current draw on the level was quite a bit less.

I really don't understand why some trains are such current hogs. USA Trains engines used to be current hogs years ago but that was fixed as far as I know.
If you do the calculation the numbers come out right - 750ma per motor block plus 300ma for sound and 25ma per 5 volt light - each car has four lights - there was one baggage car with no lights and two dining cars with lights on each table in addition to the ceiling lights.

Dining car table lights are wired two in series by LGB, that reduces the brightness making them look more realistic, also reduces the overall current required.

One problem with heavyweights I can see that would require a lot more current is the rolling resistance. Cars with ball-bearing pick-ups only require about 10 grams each, the older LGB cars with carbon brushes required about 120 grams each - that additional load would translate into more current draw by the engine.

I wouldn't dream of powering anything on my layout with a 25 amp supply - far too risky if you have a short.
 
#23 ·
Posted By krs on 12 Jan 2010 01:12 PM
Posted By toddalin on 12 Jan 2010 10:52 AM
Posted By krs on 12 Jan 2010 10:45 AM
Seems the "bigger is better" idea has found it's way into this thread.
Using, actually even marketing, a 25 amp supply to run a single train is totally ridiculous.
And that's all you can control with a basic analog set up - one train.






No, you can power as many trains at once as the power pack will support. We run seven trains simultaneously on two or three power packs, but never get close to the 10 amp fuse rating (16.7 amp transformer ratings) on any of the packs.



How do you control each train individually if you only have one throttle?




Who ever said that they needed to be controlled individually? Many of us just turn them on and let them go.
 
#24 ·
Posted By toddalin on 12 Jan 2010 01:35 PM
Who ever said that they needed to be controlled individually? Many of us just turn them on and let them go.




Funny...............

So you put three trains on an oval and have them chase each other?
Or go one step further and add a block system to prevent them from running into each other.


Certainly not my way of running trains but each to his own.
 
#25 ·
People keep mentioning the length of their track as justification for a higher current supply.
The length of the track has nothing to do with the current required to run a train - extra feet of track don't use up amps.
 
#26 ·
Knut,

Todd does all that fancy stuff with relays and automatic train control. I also believe he has multiple loops as well.

So, multiple trains on one loop and "just let them go" is a teeny bit misleading... "just let them operate under the automatic train control" might be closer ;-)

Regards, Greg
 
#27 ·
Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 12 Jan 2010 10:58 AM

My power pack will operate all 3 of my loops and can handle anything i throw at it can your Mike, Greg ???????????? come on guys start thinking out side the box, you guys arent the ony ones that have RRs... if i came to your house to run with 3 e-8s and 11 heavyweights i would blow your power packs up rite? thought so thats why i run the biggest and the best that way i dont have to worry about it and im sure there are plenty of others that agree, How many ft of track do you have Mike? when im done it will be over 3000ft do you think your little pack will power my layout? came on get a grip when you post.....................
Image




Ever checked how much force you need to move one of these heavyweights?
I don't own any but from what I have read both the power pick up and the lights are not exactly current technology.
And as I mentioned already - length of track has nothing to do with current requirements.
 
#28 ·
Posted By krs on 12 Jan 2010 01:46 PM
People keep mentioning the length of their track as justification for a higher current supply.
The length of the track has nothing to do with the current required to run a train - extra feet of track don't use up amps.

It does matter when you powering 3 seperate loops with one power pack VIA 3 T.E.s
Image
some of you guys need to understand that there are other ways of doing things.
 
#29 ·
Posted By Greg Elmassian on 12 Jan 2010 01:47 PM
Knut,

Todd does all that fancy stuff with relays and automatic train control. I also believe he has multiple loops as well.

So, multiple trains on one loop and "just let them go" is a teeny bit misleading... "just let them operate under the automatic train control" might be closer ;-)

Regards, Greg




Essentially a block control system I take it.
So OK - one needs enough current to run all the trains in this type of set up although I doubt it's very common.
 
#30 ·
Posted By krs on 12 Jan 2010 02:07 PM
Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 12 Jan 2010 10:58 AM

My power pack will operate all 3 of my loops and can handle anything i throw at it can your Mike, Greg ???????????? come on guys start thinking out side the box, you guys arent the ony ones that have RRs... if i came to your house to run with 3 e-8s and 11 heavyweights i would blow your power packs up rite? thought so thats why i run the biggest and the best that way i dont have to worry about it and im sure there are plenty of others that agree, How many ft of track do you have Mike? when im done it will be over 3000ft do you think your little pack will power my layout? came on get a grip when you post.....................
Image




Ever checked how much force you need to move one of these heavyweights?
I don't own any but from what I have read both the power pick up and the lights are not exactly current technology.
And as I mentioned already - length of track has nothing to do with current requirements.



No never checked but they do have alot of drag same as USA, but if i need more power i just add another engine. i do relize the way i do it does take more AMPS but that how i know to run trains. i recently bought a whole bunch of LEDs and some other electrical parts so i will start converting my passenger fleet to get the Amps down, but still nice to have the power if needed.
 
#31 ·
Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 12 Jan 2010 02:08 PM
Posted By krs on 12 Jan 2010 01:46 PM
People keep mentioning the length of their track as justification for a higher current supply.
The length of the track has nothing to do with the current required to run a train - extra feet of track don't use up amps.

It does matter when you powering 3 seperate loops with one power pack VIA 3 T.E.s
Image
some of you guys need to understand that there are other ways of doing things.



But why would you do that? If you're using T.E., you could just get three meanwell 10 amp transformers--around 60 bucks each. Then you'd have 10 amps of regulated DC on each loop--more then the Bridgewerks and under $200 bucks. If you are using the TE why mess with the bridgewerks throttle?


I ran using aristo te's and track power for years. It works fine. Why have one power pack?
 
#32 ·
Posted By lownote on 12 Jan 2010 02:27 PM
Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 12 Jan 2010 02:08 PM
Posted By krs on 12 Jan 2010 01:46 PM
People keep mentioning the length of their track as justification for a higher current supply.
The length of the track has nothing to do with the current required to run a train - extra feet of track don't use up amps.

It does matter when you powering 3 seperate loops with one power pack VIA 3 T.E.s
Image
some of you guys need to understand that there are other ways of doing things.



But why would you do that? If you're using T.E., you could just get three meanwell 10 amp transformers--around 60 bucks each. Then you'd have 10 amps of regulated DC on each loop--more then the Bridgewerks and under $200 bucks. If you are using the TE why mess with the bridgewerks throttle?


I ran using aristo te's and track power for years. It works fine. Why have one power pack?



Mike the TEs were just an example, when i complete my layout will be able to run DC, DCS DCC BATTERY on any loop with just a flick of a switch, so i wanted the best power i could find that was good Quality product so i didnt have to worry about it breaking in a year or 2. Yes i know it cost more but i tend to try to buy quality when i can afford it. and to be honest up untill a few years ago many of us never heard of Meanwell. It was either LGB jumbo big bucks Aristo craft or Bridgewerks........ ive had my bridgewerks for 5 years with no issues. I also keep a Aristo elite anda MRC as back ups or to use at train shows.... Also at the time i reentered the hobby i never new that much back then about LEDs so a 10 amp would not power what i had planned on buying, plus not a lot of people were doing LED conversions back then to lower the AMPS.
 
#33 ·
In Nick's case, he goes to shows and other places, carrying separate power supplies would be a pain, and the equipment gets moved and handled a lot more. Thus a higher quality power supply and a big-a** one make sense.

So the extra cost is worth it to Nick in reliability and convenience.

But, of course this thread is not about Nick (or wasn't supposed to be ha ha!)

I suppose we have answered the thread originator's question by now, or scared him off from entering the "disco inferno"....

Regards, Greg
 
#34 ·
Posted By Greg Elmassian on 12 Jan 2010 03:02 PM
In Nick's case, he goes to shows and other places, carrying separate power supplies would be a pain, and the equipment gets moved and handled a lot more. Thus a higher quality power supply and a big-a** one make sense.

So the extra cost is worth it to Nick in reliability and convenience.

But, of course this thread is not about Nick (or wasn't supposed to be ha ha!)

I suppose we have answered the thread originator's question by now, or scared him off from entering the "disco inferno"....

Regards, Greg

Its always about me Greg, didnt you get the memo........
Image
he he he
Image
..... he's not scared off he's just trying to figure out if he wants back in to the conversation....
Last note from me about this, everybody has there own way of doing things so whats nice about this forum is you can see all the different ways and make a decision as to whats best for you.. I guess theres no wrong way to approach this hobby, thats why its so COOL to play with trains. im done now, I need to go feed the pets.
 
#35 ·
Posted By krs on 12 Jan 2010 01:43 PM
Posted By toddalin on 12 Jan 2010 01:35 PM
Who ever said that they needed to be controlled individually? Many of us just turn them on and let them go.




Funny...............

So you put three trains on an oval and have them chase each other?
Or go one step further and add a block system to prevent them from running into each other.


Certainly not my way of running trains but each to his own.



First of all, the OP indicated that he runs "simple ovals." So why shouldn't he run both/multiple ovals on the same pack assuming it can support the load? There is no chance for collision and he has the advantage of being able to start/stop them all simultaneously.

As for the T&LBRR, we run many ways. Yes we use block control with 21 blocks each addressable by any of three throttles. We run as many as seven trains simultaneously on ~600 feet of track. For open houses, we typically run four trains in three loops that intersect and the crossing is protected by electronic control of our own design (and documented here many times). The other three run point to point.

Image


But we also run operations with three engineers and two towermen who take care of the turnout and block necessities.

Recognize that anyone who runs a simple loop or point to point with a spur that can be shut off with a toggle switch is actually running in "blocks." Also recognize that block control is the most prevelent type of control in model railroading. Just think of all those H0 and N pikes that have been running block systems since ...
 
Discussion starter · #37 ·
Guys,

So sorry for my late reply. I didn't check mark the "Check the box to receive email notifications for this topic". I thought it was weird that no one had an opinion on this until I checked the actual thread today instead of waiting for a response in my e-mail box. LOL

Greg, the MRC AG990 was one that I was looking at and I might get one for outdoor use. Last week I bought an MRC 9500 for $95 (it's the one with the track current and voltage gauges). The large throttle on the AG990 wasn't going to work for my home office ceiling layout as I wanted to conserve space. The old transformers that I was using were just struggling when I was running my LGB 2085D which to this day is my favorite engine for indoor use. The introduction of the MRC 9500 is like night and day. I had no idea that engine could run that fast (never ran it in my backyard).

I'll keep the MRC 9500 in my home office and I'll figure out something in the backyard after we get through a new landscaping venture my wife wants to have done later this year. While I've enjoyed having a simple layout in my backyard my mind is shifting toward a more complex layout that with all sorts of things my boys will no doubt destroy. It's one of the reasons why many of my engines and cars haven't seen the sun in many years. In fact, what is most run in the backyard has been an LGB starter set I bought my boys. It's been through things that would make a grown man cry, but still running.

The ceiling layout has been great for a guy with little boys. It's up high and I've gotten cars out of storage that literally have not been run for almost 30 years.

Thanks,
Joe
 
#38 ·
well, we all know, that Nick is planning the ultimate LS-layout. (guiness book of records style)
so i understand, that he needs to buy a 25 to 50 ampere power pack.
nothing to argue against that.

but we might think as well about Joe-average's needs. (sorry, no pun intended)

Joe,
you read enough by now about bigger or smaller powerpacks. but nobody mentioned the other option:
more (small) powerpacks.

depending, what you plan to do with your layout, you might be happy with a couple of 1 Ampere packs.
example - if you build a loop plus one shunting yard, one train could run happily around the loop powered by one pack, while you shunt in the yard with a second small pack.
or, if you like automated trains (running on blocks), the maximum you would need, would be one pack per block.

for me that has allways worked.
my last layout was automated. six trains running simultaniously on blocks. each block powered by a one Amp powerpack.
i hoarded the packs over the years (actually ten). some were originally for H0, some for 0 and some for G.
the trains i run, have one or two motors. (two to four additional bulbs in the coaches)
lately i bought a bigger pack (full 4 Amps!!) for use at the 46' long 6% grades, i am building.

even if you need a really big powerpack later, the small ones are not wasted. you can use them for lighting buildings.

Image
 
21 - 40 of 52 Posts
About this Discussion
51 Replies
13 Participants
Last post:
Greg Elmassian
G Scale Model Train Forum
posts
460K
members
32K
Since
2007
A forum community dedicated to G scale model train owners and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about collections, displays, models, styles, scales, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more!
Full Forum Listing
Explore Our Forums
Live Steam General G Scale Discussions Beginner's Forum Model Making Track, Trestles, Bridges and Roadbed