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Frank S gas line damage from an unusual source

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JoelB

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I bought a gently used LGB/Aster Frank S. from another live steamer recently. There was a little residual gas left in the tank, so I took the tender into the back yard to vent it safely away from the house. I left the tender outside and went back in.

After about 20 minutes, I went back outside, only to find that some animal had bitten through the rubber gas line and wandered off with the gas jet end of the assembly! There are obvious bite marks on the tubing. I've searched around the area where the tender had been sitting, but have had no luck finding the brass jet and stub of rubber tubing.

What really puzzles me is not just what kind of an animal would bite through the tube, but also run off with an inedible piece of brass? We've had a plague of chipmunks and squirrels this year, but I'd be surprised (if not a little fearful) of any rodent that can carry off a brass fitting. The raccoons don't usually prowl around until after dark, the neighbors' dogs have been accounted for.

The more pressing problem is how to fix this. I've contacted Charles and Ryan at Triple R Services to see if they have a recommendation for a replacement, I've also contacted a gentleman in Switzerland who sells aftermarket Frank S parts. If anyone has, for example, kitbashed or converted their Frank S and has a gas line with jet that they'd be willing to sell, I'd really like to hear from them via PM.

Thanks!
 
#2 ·
Squirrels and in my case pack rats love shiny objects. I lost 20" of fire hose and a brand new dual handle fire nozzle. Stripped it right off the rack!


I feel your pain.
 
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#3 ·
My thoughts to make Frank more happy steaming in cooler weather is to put one of the upright Roundhouse tanks in the cab on the firemans side to take advantage of the boiler heat and do away with the whole tender water bath setup. Then just use the gas jet, valve and supply line like is used on the Roundhouse basic series engines like Bertie. I would even go as far to upgrade the burner as the Roundhouse set up is nearly silent once warmed up and the gas turned down prior to the run. A small hole in the roof of Frank would be needed to refuel since it doesn't open, just like the basic series engines. Mike the Aspie
 
Discussion starter · #4 ·
Hi Mike,

I like the way you think -- the more research I've been doing, the more I'm finding that a lot of Frank S owners (not just in the US, but in the UK and Europe) have been taking that same approach of putting a tank in the cab and doing without the whole tender tank-in-the-water bath setup. In fact, one of the folks I've been in touch with -- a gentleman in Switzerland who does business as "Dampfatelier am Kilometer 103,455" -- sells aftermarket conversion kits for the Frank S that features a side tank, piping and gas jet to retrofit into the existing burner.

The only caveat to using a Roundhouse burner that I can think of is that the mounting holes likely don't match the set on the Frank S backhead...probably just a matter of making an adapter. I'll do some further checking and go from there. My hunch is that the squirrel who's responsible for this isn't liable to bring the part back anytime soon...

Thanks very much!
 
#5 ·
Yes squirrels chewed holes in two rubber gas lines from propane tanks to heater and grill here. I ended up wrapping the lines in aluminum flashing to protect them from the little beasts.
Long shot, if you have access to a metal detector, maybe it buried the part in a shallow hole nearby? They are constantly digging shallow holes in my layout, no doubt with the sole purpose of irritating me. Good luck.

PS- should you come up with a new burner, Eric Schade helped me run a steam line from a T on the pressure gage steam line through a valve from PM research and into a coil of copper tubing in the tender water tank. That did it, a slight crack of the valve and the cool weather running problem of Frank S was solved.

Jerry
 
#6 ·
I still say since the jet is gone, along with its holder which is a custom/unique thing to the Frank S as it snap locks in place, its time to move the tank to the cab and a whole new jet/burner set up from Roundhouse. I dislike having lots of wires, plumbing and so forth running between the tender and engine when possible. Making the engine self contained like pretty much every other European narrow gauge live steam engine on the market, would be my way of thinking. Not adding a steam heating line to the tender. I bet the gas jet/burner would mount easier than we think it will. On my Bertie, it mounts with two small screws, just as on Frank S. You might need to elongate or drill new holes in the sheet metal flange on the burner to line up, but that is a simple modification.
 
Discussion starter · #7 ·
Mike,

Agree completely, replacing the tender-mounted gas tank with one in the cab is a good way to go.

However, I checked the space available in the Frank S cab and looked at the gas tanks that Roundhouse offers on their web site, and it doesn't look like there's enough space between the cab wall and the boiler to fit a RH tank. Their upright cylindrical ones are 1" (25.4mm) in diameter and the space available is more like 7/8" or even less, as it's a good idea to keep the two surfaces from touching.

I don't know the dimensions of Accucraft's tanks (either the in-cab tanks like the Ruby's or the side tanks like the Edrig's), but one of those might be an option -- except that you'd have to fabricate a jet holder, AC doesn't offer one in their e-store. Turning a jet holder up from brass rod would be pretty straightforward...
 
#8 ·
Someone said there is a gentleman in Europe, Germany I think, that offers a replacement side tank set up similar to what Fine Scale Engineering used to offer. I forget who got what was left of the Frank S spares when Aster Japan had thier sudden garage sale on all the parts. Or even if there were any gas system parts. Another suggestion is, Jim Sanders of Wee Bee Loco Works is the leader of our loose knit live steam group. You might contact him and see if he could fabricate the snap in gas jet and holder with a barb on the back for the rubber gas line, RC airplane fuel line maybe? I will see him the weekend after the fourth of July for his annual 3 day steam up at his place in Brownsburg, IN. He could get measurements off my Frank S. Atleast that would restore the stock set up so you can run the engine. Just an idea while you explore other tank ideas.
 
#9 ·
If you can turn up a jet holder, just add some ridges at the rear where you could clamp a piece of rubber tubing over the end. I do not know the jet size, that would take some experimenting unless someone knows, maybe start with a number 5 jet and see if it lights ok and doesn't overfire. You might also give Jay Kovac a call at The Train Department, he might have some suggestions on jet size or other ideas. What I have done on my Frank S, to live with the water bath at fall steam ups is I take an electric hot plate and keep a tea kettle on low, then use my syringe that I fill the boiler with, to remove the water from the bath and put it in the boiler, then take warm water from the pot, and put it both in the boiler and the tender. That worked excellent this spring since we had so much colder weather late into the spring time. I don't remember where your at in the states, but you could always come boil water with us the weekend after July 4th and we could fix Frank then. Mike the Aspie
 
Discussion starter · #11 ·
Hi Mike,

Once again, brilliant minds think alike :D

I had mentioned "Dampfaltelier 103,455" in an earlier post. It's a model shop in Zwingen, Switzerland, the owner is Markus Feigenwinter. I speak German, so I e-mailed him late last week and asked about getting a replacement for the line from the tender. Haven't heard back yet, so I may be asking the wrong question, or this may be a part-time gig for him and he doesn't answer e-mail regularly. The complete replacement tank, valve, jet assembly and piping run about SFr 240, or about the same figure in US dollars.

I've also e-mailed Jason at The Train Department about a replacement jet, holder and a length of small-diameter tube that the remaining hose can fit over.
 
#12 ·
Sounds like a plan. That is one expensive fuel tank from the Swiss. I dont think the one I got from Finescale was that much, but then he reused the fuel valve, knob and such from the stock tank, which you had to ship to him in England. Hopefully you will get Frankie up and running in short order
 
Discussion starter · #13 ·
A Happy Ending, courtesy of Ryan Bednarik at Triple R Services. Ryan turned a replacement jet holder in brass, based on a Frank S that they had in the shop. Fits perfectly! Just need to track down a hose clamp for the 5/16" rubber hose...perhaps auto supply stores might stock these.

Kudos to Ryan!
 

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#14 · (Edited)
Looks good Joel!
You could use a piece of wire twisted tightly or even a plastic wire tie to hold the line from slipping back over the barb on the end of the jet holder tube. Model aircraft fuel line clamps from the hobby shop would work too.
Waiting for the report of its firing,
Tom
 
Discussion starter · #15 ·
Model aircraft fuel line clamps from the hobby shop
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YES! Why didn't I think of that? Thanks, that's just what I needed.

I won't get over to the local shop until tomorrow at the earliest...but I'll be sure to post the results. Ryan did a test firing on their Frank before sending it out to make sure that the jet nozzle was properly aligned, so I'm pretty confident that we'll have success here.
 
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