Well I have word that 6 locos will be shipped over here next week. I am unsure yet as the to color but they are unlined and I think only gas fired. Not sure if I will review one before they ship to the customers but there was a lot of corrections made to the production for cosmetic and performance. After many years waiting as we go onto 3 years total they are finally coming in.
Accucraft E6 first batch
Kovacjr
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Something worth keeping in mind with many of these steam models, I think, is that they frequently maintain their value over time. So their cost isn't truly an expense in the same way your cable bill is.
Buying a model for $3,000 (or any amount), which can then be resold for $3,000 when you want a new one, means the actual "cost" is the lost investment income on $3,000; as a low-risk way to store money, it would seem to provide quite an attractive value in the hours of enjoyment available.
Buying a model for $3,000 (or any amount), which can then be resold for $3,000 when you want a new one, means the actual "cost" is the lost investment income on $3,000; as a low-risk way to store money, it would seem to provide quite an attractive value in the hours of enjoyment available.
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Mike says what I think is right Nate, if you go through the process of scratch building a live steamer, it involves over 1500 hours work time or labor + some very big material costs: Metal, hardware, tooling and paint, transfers or decals, castings and especially mashining and sheet metal work costs, as well as laser cutting and draphting the project in the first place, as well as research work to get it to look right. + rent, heating bills, taxes etc. And the same goes for the people who run the stores or who run the firms that produce these things, I know for sure that Jason doesn't make a living out of it, for instance.
Now on your side and point of view, I remember when I was a teen ager and serious about model railroading the heartbreaking frustration of not being able to afford such and such a model that I strived for.
Well that frustration made me, at the time and in HO scale, concentrate on making structures and scenery, both affordable for a teen ager. (Balsa or stripwood, card stock and plaster are cheap). Well a few years later, as I knew how to draw pretty well was interested in architecture and theater I became a scene designer. Knowing how to make models, a thing I had learned during thoe frustrating years, gave me an edge on the competition, I was able to earn my living and progressively overcome my status as poor young artist and eventually buy the locos I wouldn't even have dreamed of when I was teen ager. So don't despair it will happen if you want it that much...
Now on your side and point of view, I remember when I was a teen ager and serious about model railroading the heartbreaking frustration of not being able to afford such and such a model that I strived for.
Well that frustration made me, at the time and in HO scale, concentrate on making structures and scenery, both affordable for a teen ager. (Balsa or stripwood, card stock and plaster are cheap). Well a few years later, as I knew how to draw pretty well was interested in architecture and theater I became a scene designer. Knowing how to make models, a thing I had learned during thoe frustrating years, gave me an edge on the competition, I was able to earn my living and progressively overcome my status as poor young artist and eventually buy the locos I wouldn't even have dreamed of when I was teen ager. So don't despair it will happen if you want it that much...
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My first live steamer, an Archangel, cost the equivalent of $400 in 1977 - do you really think that a loco like the E6 should only be worth $800 today? Really? Apart from labour costs (wherever you are), one of the biggest costs is tooling / mould making - until someone finds a way of translating CAD into hardened steel cheaply this is always going to be one of the biggest items in the cost of production. Believe me when I say we have looked all round the world for a way of lowering this cost and it is no wonder that UK firms outsource pattern making to countries like China - and it is still incredibly expensive! Don't even get me started on the cost of plastics tooling which start at a five figure sum and spiral up from there.
Graham.
Graham.
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I agree, and it should be considered when you buy a loco. The ones I have sold were at close to the price I paid for them.
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Argh -please, not a Bachmann live steamer!
Actually, Nate, you are missing that there is a lot of specialized labor to produce things like wheels for a run of 50 locomotives. LGB and Bachmann are cheap because they amortize the tool costs over a run of 1,000 models. (Look at the Mogul that Bachmann just re-introduced. Same plastic with a few mods.)
And Bachmann did/does produce brass models with steel wheels - they just don't sell any here. Guess what, they are expensive. This gauge-1 0-6-0 (electric) is £810 ($1,000-ish.)
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The Mamod and the Ruby are not great live steamers - because they are built down to a price, not up to a standard. IMHO you need a steamer that costs about $1,000 to really enjoy the hobby.
You are young and have plenty of time to save your pennies. Just enjoy the benefits of owning a working live steam engine and stop pining for more.
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That's interesting - it won't let me edit the above post. Just gives me a blank Message window and it adds a 'Report this Image' link. I'll try it and see what happens. Nothing.
Anyway, what I wanted to add is that the loco pictured comes from Bachmann Brassworks. And that the Bachmann US Mogul retails for over $1,000, although the street price is around $600.
Anyway, what I wanted to add is that the loco pictured comes from Bachmann Brassworks. And that the Bachmann US Mogul retails for over $1,000, although the street price is around $600.
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bachmann live steam egine??? boiler would be made of plastic!
(or an old soda can)
(or an old soda can
)
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Well, Aristo did a couple of live steamers about a decade ago, taking a couple of their existing 1:29 models (Mikado and 0-4-0) and re-engineering them for live steam. The boilers are copper, but the superficial outer shell and all of the details are plastic, same as the electric version (although I think they used a different, more heat-resistent plastic on the steam versions). By the way, even those (the Mikados anyway) were more than $800!bachmann live steam egine??? boiler would be made of plastic!
Graham, i if may quote you "swallowing quite a percentage ourselves", obviously customer relations are very important to you. Having been in business for 31 years, involving installing wiring and telecom equipment in new and existing buildings. The estimate I gave the customer was binding, although many feel that a 5% overage is well within acceptable. If the cost went beyond that for what ever reason, that meant that i didn't do my job correctly, or properly inspect the building. Accucraft is not new to this game and they know what it takes to build these things, and also know to anticipate the increase in materials and labor. I don't believe either went up to that degree since it was first purposed or since the last price posted on 24 Dec.
Is it possible that the 16% increase of the E6 is due to the recent merger? And will this price increase carry on to future production? Thank You
Is it possible that the 16% increase of the E6 is due to the recent merger? And will this price increase carry on to future production? Thank You
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I think that the increase is more due to the fact that the dollar devaluated that much in such a short time. I could bet the Chinese price is the same. You have to understand Nate that to fight the massive import of Chinese good the Obama administration printed so much money so that Chinese goods prices would go up. it is a deliberate intention to protect (rightly so) US jobs. I won't comment that but that is how it is, the same is haperning here in Europe.
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With all due respect, sir ---- NO. Foreign exchange is nowhere near that simple, nor do politicians of any stripe have that kind of influence, as much as many of us think they do.
Prices for Chinese goods are going up because of pressures on manufacturers within China. Bloomberg published an interesting piece on this back in October: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...icles/2016-10-30/china-s-factory-to-the-world-mulls-the-unthinkable-price-hikes
Let's all keep a few things in mind -- much of this already posted, I'm just adding emphasis:
-- It takes a substantial up-front outlay (in the tens of thousands of pounds/dollars) to design and produce a model, well before the first one is sold. There's enormous risk involved: mis-judging a very small and fickle market, getting blindsided by sudden currency fluctuations and other unknowns
-- Small-scale live steam is a highly specialized market; garden railways are a niche within the larger model railway market, live steam is a niche within that niche. Smaller product runs nearly always translate to higher unit prices, because the up-front costs have to be recouped over fewer units sold.
-- Did I mention that prices in China are going up?
Nobody over there is working for pennies an hour any longer.Nate, you've already accomplished more than most (if not all) of us have at a very young age. Be patient, save your pennies.
My unbidden two cents' worth.
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Same thing happened to the brass HO scale market, first mostly made in Japan, but rising labor costs combined with a devalued doller vs the Japanese yen made models unaffordable within just a few short years. Production was moved to South Korea, for the most part, and prices flattened out or dropped slightly, but so did the quality for a few years as the Koreans learned a new trade and how to make a quality model. Then labor costs rose there, just as they had in Japan and models got expenisve, but at thru those year, modelers demanded models be painted, detailed for a specific road name with even more detail. Add into the equation the plastic/diecast market also came of age with detailing rivialing the brass models at a lower cost. So what once was runs in the 500-1000 pieces, became runs of 5-25 of each road name. What once was a 200-300 doller brass diesel for example, is now near $1000 each and so fragile with all the detail, they are more of a display piece IMHO. I think Roundhouse has done it the best, maintainted consistant quality, even improving on many models over many production runs, yet kept the cost reasonable on the common models such as Lady Anne and Billy ect. Accucraft comes in second, they are fighting fast rising labor costs and inflation in China, be it natural or goverment assisted. We get used to getting things on the cheap, like the Ruby for around $300 when first released. I be they would be $600-$700 if and when they are ever produced again. Had Merlin had proper management from around the time the Mayflowers hit the market going foward, they might be still with us today like Roundhouse is. When Ian opened Pearse Loco works, if you look at the first models, they basicly took over where Merlin left off. The Accucraft UK models are much the same, like Edrig, Caradoc, just imagine the Merlin fixed outside valve motion on them and you see the family resemblance. I kind of wish they would revert back to outside valve gear, but I digress. Mike
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I'm sorry, I was only speaking for UK production, I can't answer for the US range.
Graham.
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I doubt the merger had anything at all to do with the cost increase. More due to the lapse of time from announcement to production and the constant change in costs of material and labor, sometimes it cannot be absorbed into the price of the model. Good looking engine though, cant wait to see videos of it running on others layouts. Mike
I beg to differ, many feel that the Pre Sale and Production price differing by %16 is unconscionable even considering the time laps from pre to post production. Material and Labor costs increased by that much? I'm sure those factory workers would like to see that. I refer to what Simon posted. And in his post this is not the first time Accucraft has done this. And if you want to talk about features, Simon brought up and you admitted to the obtrusive oil pipe.
"quote" We are not responsible for the delay in production, because Accucraft found it more opportune to turn out a big boy, an SP mogul and a N&W J class between the time the E6 was announced and we made a deposit) and its late release. All these engines which had not been announced before the E6 (save perhaps the big boy) as well as engines for the British market and the German ones, not to forget the numerous narrow gauge releases. So if it is not economical for Accucraft to produce this engine announced around four years ago at its advertised price, I will be very upset and might ask for a refund. You can't keep the cake and eat it too! If you manufacturers want us to reserve an engine with a down payment , then you have to respect your end of the contract and make a quick release and hold a firm price.
Let us not forget that this is not the first time Accucraft does this quick one on us we have the precedent of the LW coaches price hike.
I know he apologized for some of his statements, but that doesn't make them less accurate.
Graham, my thought is if the price increase was due to the new merger I would think it would effect the over all production,but you would have a better handle on that than I. thank you.
"quote" We are not responsible for the delay in production, because Accucraft found it more opportune to turn out a big boy, an SP mogul and a N&W J class between the time the E6 was announced and we made a deposit) and its late release. All these engines which had not been announced before the E6 (save perhaps the big boy) as well as engines for the British market and the German ones, not to forget the numerous narrow gauge releases. So if it is not economical for Accucraft to produce this engine announced around four years ago at its advertised price, I will be very upset and might ask for a refund. You can't keep the cake and eat it too! If you manufacturers want us to reserve an engine with a down payment , then you have to respect your end of the contract and make a quick release and hold a firm price.
Let us not forget that this is not the first time Accucraft does this quick one on us we have the precedent of the LW coaches price hike.
I know he apologized for some of his statements, but that doesn't make them less accurate.
Graham, my thought is if the price increase was due to the new merger I would think it would effect the over all production,but you would have a better handle on that than I. thank you.
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Nick you can beg to differ all you want as no matter what I or other will say you will make your own complaints accordingly. Its shown in numerous threads how you rant on and on over and over again. Its funny that you have never come to any steam events but yet you always seem to be the point of people conversations. Its beyond be and many others how to continue to beat a dead horse trying to contradict me in any way you can. We get it, you don't like me and I couldn't give a rats ass that you don't. Problem is you cant get over yourself continuing to do it. As many just ignore your comments myself included, its just is old hat that you keep bothering to try to piss people off. We don't need this crap on the forums or at events, If you don't like something than don't buy it. But to constantly complain and try to twist my words all the time, we all know what you do. Just ask people that know you personally. They all say the same at this point. You have alienated yourself from the local people in the hobby even after I've brought you personally to local steamups, but grasp at threads to hold on to these "forum friends" with your rants.
You think that putting the BB , Mogul and J before the E6 was due to opportunity? How about they were first in line to the production as they were drawn before the E6 was even drawn up. Never mind that the Heisler was designed when Charlie was alive!
As to the coaches, bad example there bud as the original quote for the cars were for the basic smooth painted coach. Then people demanded that interiors be added, underbody detail to be added along with more cosmetic details added on the body that were not planned. As the changes added up so did the tooling for the plastic interior along with the plastic underbody.
You think that putting the BB , Mogul and J before the E6 was due to opportunity? How about they were first in line to the production as they were drawn before the E6 was even drawn up. Never mind that the Heisler was designed when Charlie was alive!
As to the coaches, bad example there bud as the original quote for the cars were for the basic smooth painted coach. Then people demanded that interiors be added, underbody detail to be added along with more cosmetic details added on the body that were not planned. As the changes added up so did the tooling for the plastic interior along with the plastic underbody.
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