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Engineer
Australia
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Engineer
1st Class Member
USA
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 Posted - 31 Dec 2003 : 23:11:17
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Tony... That is a real neat, clean installation.   You've done a marvelous job fitting the electronics and batteries in the boiler/tanks.
Using the 2100 mAh NiMh's, what is the charging time from full discharge to fully charged? I haven't had very good success with the NiMh's and have stayed with Nicads for the 8.4 and 7.2 packs. I make all the packs removable so I can run continuously. When a pack is discharged, I just replace it like they do for the R/C cars and boats. All batteries are in a tender or follow car. I've just made a preliminary test with a Li-ion Canon camera battery with some encouraging results. The battery is 1/3 the size of the smallest Nicad pack.
I posted a report at this link...
http://www.mylargescale.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=19436
Have you delved into Li-ion?????
Again, a wonderful installation in the Porter.... Thanks for sharing it.
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Engineer
Australia
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Posted - 01 Jan 2004 : 05:47:08
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Stan,
Thank you for the compliments.
6 hours + run time is more than ample for me so I have no need to change the batteries or fast charge them.
With those particular twin stick packs in series I trickle charged them at the recommended 10% rate (210ma) for 14 hours.
It is recommended that NiMH batteries be charged with a charger that monitors voltage and automatically switches off.
Such chargers are now readily available.
Tower Hobbies http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXCJG7&P=7 sell the Triton charger  which can handle all sorts of battery types and voltages. There are others as no doubt subsequent posters to this thread will mention.
Li-Pol batteries are promising.
Personally I have had mixed success with them.
My Hyundai cell phone came with two which have lasted two years between them.
My Fuji film digital still camera eats them. The first pack lasted less than a year and the clone replacements about the same. I am not impressed with them in that application.
My next digital camera will definitely use AA size NiMH cells so that I can use regular AA dry batteries in an emergency.
I successfully tested Li-Metal metal batteries some time ago but these have now been withdrawn from the market. Why I am not sure but I suspect for safety reasons. I was advised Lithium can explode in sea water. I am not implying the same fate for Li-Pol cells.
Bearing in mind that good quality NiCd batteries can be recharged about 1,000 times and NiMh about 500 times I would be interested in finding out how many times Li-Pol batteries can be recharged before they die.
Their power to weight/volume may be excellent but if they are not cost effective they will not be something I can recommend just yet.
Cheap is not always better if it costs more in the long run because it does not last as long. |
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Railway Exec (Moderator)
1st Class Member
Canada
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Posted - 01 Jan 2004 : 06:22:38
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Tony (and Stan)
Nice neat installation Tony ... congrats on "cramming" everything in! The run time is also impressive ...
This thread has touched on the 3 main current technologies in batteries - NiCad, Li and NiMH. And of course the debate rages over which is best, runs longest, is most cost effective and so on.
What has not been discussed much is the fact that "users" of this technology have different applications and perhaps need different batteries and different installations. I will suggest two broad camps of users though in fact there may be more ...
First, there are what I will call the display runners. These are the folks who enjoy watching their trains (from the patio with drink in hand?!) make a continuous run. As Stan has pointed out, a removable fast exchange battery installation, perhaps in a trail car, and a quick charge is necessity. The length of run is not really critical but it must be sufficiently long that changes to the battery pack are infrequent.
The other broad group I will call switching operators. These are the folks that operate on a regular basis for a few hours at a time. They walk with their train and do lots of switching. For this application, a self contained installation is essential (to fit the loco on a turntable for example) and run time is critically important. Charging between sessions can take as long as needed at a trickle charge.
Clearly these different requirements drive different approaches to the use of battery technology.
Regards ... Doug |
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Engineer
Australia
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Posted - 01 Jan 2004 : 07:17:02
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Hi Doug,
I understand your comments completely.
Both are very valid positions.
The more battery R/C is discussed the more non battery LS'ers will see the benefits for outdoor use. The options available are increasing all the time.
Personally I fall into the second camp.
I like to do lots of switching so I tend to look for ways to maximise the run times but still have everything on board the loco. This does get complicated and can get expensive. However it does demonstrate how small and low profile my RCS R/C equipment really is.
Fitting it all into a Climax was a challenge but I did it.
I do cater for the "display runners" amongst us with a very simple installation kit 
that has a 5 amp fuse, ON-OFF switch, RF chokes, charge jack and trail car to loco connectors. The PCB will sit in a boxcar doorway for easy access and works with any brand of R/C. |
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Engineer
1st Class Member
USA
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Posted - 01 Jan 2004 : 09:51:13
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Doug,
I enjoyed your observations of the "different" types of "runners." That's what makes this hobby so wonderful. We can each do what we like to do and fully enjoy it. I'm a "display" runner and just enjoy having trains run continuously while working in the garage, cooking on the outdoor grill or just relaxing. Most of this running is without R/C or sound as there are times I just get tired of hearing the bells, whistles and engine noises.
Then, when visitors (young and old) come by to see the trains, I'll bring out the R/C sound stuff and "impress" them with the sounds and let the kids run the TX to control speed, bells and whistles. They have a blast with that.
That's why I chose to make my battery inatallations the way I did. Is it perfect?!?!?!. Nope, but it works great for me. Most of the guys here who have outdoor layouts enjoy the same type of running. There are a couple of folks moving in from other areas that are planning different types of layouts. The new ones will be track powered because that's what they've had in the past, like to operate that way and it works wonderfully for them. |
Edited by - on 01 Jan 2004 09:52:13 |
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Engineer
Australia
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Posted - 31 Jul 2007 : 00:17:03
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Please excuse me bringing this back up but I needed to update the thread.
I noticed that the url for a pic was wrong so I have modified the url from a later save so it now works.
Also I have another view of the instal under the boiler to show.
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Engineer
1st Class Member
USA
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Posted - 31 Jul 2007 : 14:41:49
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Thanks Tony!
I was missing that picture when I began a few months ago...I have my ST torn in a million pieces, waiting for a Peanut Whilstle Sierra Card from Dave and then I can finish it up!
cale |
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Engineer
USA
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Posted - 31 Jul 2007 : 21:09:56
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Cale:
Just in case you forgot what it looks like put together...
Note that if you get 7 hours of run time out of her, you'll have more than tripled the number of hours she'd ever run before she came to you!
Matthew (OV) |
Edited by - on 31 Jul 2007 21:10:43 |
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Engineer
1st Class Member
USA
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Posted - 01 Aug 2007 : 19:03:26
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Shouldn't this thread by in the Battery Power forum instead of Traditional Power? Did you run out of space in the other forum already?
Mark
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Engineer
Australia
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Posted - 01 Aug 2007 : 19:21:33
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Hi Mark.
This thread was created in this forum before the battery R/C forum existed.
It was only brought back up because I updated the pix with an addition I had left out earlier.
I have no objection if perhaps the moderators would like to move it. |
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Foreman
USA
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Posted - 01 Aug 2007 : 20:54:37
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I know I have seen Tony's conversions before.
It would be really nice if they were all in one place. |
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Engineer
Australia
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Posted - 01 Aug 2007 : 21:01:44
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quote:
It would be really nice if they were all in one place.
Actually they are.
If you go to the RCS website and click on "Large Scale" then click "How to", they are all there. |
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Engineer
1st Class Member
USA
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Posted - 02 Aug 2007 : 14:13:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Dougald
First, there are what I will call the display runners. These are the folks who enjoy watching their trains (from the patio with drink in hand?!) make a continuous run.
That would be me ! I just sit out there for hours sometimes. I get a lot of thinking done ... new ideas, new projects, take note of things not working on the RR (just in case I ever get off my rear to actually fix something), and in general just find it very relaxing. |
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Foreman
USA
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Posted - 02 Aug 2007 : 23:16:07
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quote:
Originally posted by TonyWalsham
quote:
It would be really nice if they were all in one place.
Actually they are.
If you go to the RCS website and click on "Large Scale" then click "How to", they are all there.
Many thanks, I had looked through your site and missed it!
Now bookmarked. |
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