John J
Moderator
Conductor
Posts:906
Send Message
 | | 12/04/2008 4:14 AM |
| Do you guys think that a 3 % grade is too steep? It is on a curve if that makes a differance. | |
 | |
|
SlateCreek
Foreman
Posts:282
Send Message
| | 12/04/2008 4:49 AM |
| Depends on how you mean.
Prototypically, it's really steep. The White Pass and Yukon has some 4% grades with some sharp curves .... the speed limit is low, and it's really kind of extreme trackage. There are grades on the Durango and Silverton that range in the 2's ... and that happened on a lot of other narrow gauge railroads as well. Logging stuff has grades even heavier than that .... there's one grade coming into Whittaker station that's around 10%.... and it looks like a roller coaster from the train. Geared steam is the rule there ... apparently they tried it with their 45 tonner once and it had trouble making it up, light. Mainline and other Standard gauge stuff ... unless you're talking about a siding that couldn't be helped.... 1% is generally considered a big grade (of course there are exceptions and mountainous routes with that and more.)
In the model world ... a 3% grade on a curve will limit your train length because both the grade and the curve will add load to the train, one by gravity and one by drag. But, generally if you keep them under 4% you'll find it's at least manageable. If you want to run long trains ... and avoid wear.... don't.
Matthew (OV) | |
Visit the Slate Creek Railway website! | |
|
vsmith
1st Class Member
SoCal
Engineer
Posts:1171
Send Message
| | 12/04/2008 8:15 AM |
| I've got 4% grades on an R1 curve!!!
but dont listen to me, my layout is decidely different approach than anyone elses here. I run very short trains with very short cars, pulled by very short engines. If your doing more big car, big engine, mainline type modeling I would try to keep the grades down too. 3% may be good for a straight, but on a curve I would try to limit it to 2%. | |
 Kitbashing, welcome to the Dark Side | |
|
Paul Burch
1st Class Member
Gig Harbor Washington
Foreman
Posts:217
Send Message
| | 12/04/2008 8:39 AM |
| John, If that 3% grade is on your mainline and you are running modern equipment,then I think the 3% is too steep. That one section of track would limit what you can do on the whole layout. | |
Paul Burch
Sierra Cascade & Pacific R.R. | |
|
Snoq Pass
Snoqualmie Valley
Foreman
Posts:131
Send Message
| | 12/04/2008 9:05 AM |
| | A place I run on has a 150foot long 4% grade. The locomotives do fine and they are pulling 10-15 cars easy. So 3% would be okay depending on what you are running. | |
Member - Puget Sound Garden Railway Society
Owner - Cascade Northern Railroad
Owner - Hyak Locomotive Works
Owner - Locomotive Locator
Operator - Colorado Consolidated Railway
Operator - Triple Falls Lumber & Mining Co.
Cascade Northern Railroad
http://hyaklocoworks.weebly.com/
http://locomotivelocator.weebly.com/ | |
|
Stan Cedarleaf
1st Class Member
Dewey, AZ
Conductor
Posts:611
Send Message
| | 12/04/2008 9:18 AM |
| JJ..... Personally, I think 3% is too much especially on a curve. The flange drag from the wheels will make it even more difficult for the locomotive. Unless you're pulling the train with 8 F units...  Ohter solution would be to use that 3% as a downgrade only. Then put an anti-crash device at the end of the downgrade.....  Just kidding... | |
 
Dewey, AZ
Cedarleaf Custom Railroad Decals | |
|
Richard Smith
1st Class Member
Port Orford, Oregon
Foreman
Posts:489
Send Message
| | 12/04/2008 9:48 AM |
| | Great place for helper service on longer trains. Just have a siding for a helper to sit on between trains and ease it out behind to push up the hill. Cut off on top and drift the helper back downhill to await the next train. Operations!!! | |
 | |
|
nkelsey
1st Class Member
canby, Oregon
Foreman
Posts:104
Send Message
| | 12/04/2008 11:42 AM |
| I ran recently at a friend's place where he has a 3% grade on a curve. My Shay was doing fine until we came up after a live steamer, without having scale sand, I ran out of traction due to water, oil, etc on the track....
So we initiated helper service...made for great operations
| |
Nick | |
|
markoles
1st Class Member
Lancaster, PA
Conductor
Posts:882
Send Message
| | 12/04/2008 12:52 PM |
| 3%? It just makes you run shorter trains. Or you have to add more power. I think my mainline has like a 5% grade to it. Really nasty. But lots of fun! Wasn't Saluda Grade like 4%? | |
Mark Oles
Millersvillanova Railroad, Lancaster, PA | |
|
Ted Doskaris
1st Class Member
San Mateo, California
Brakeman
Posts:55
Send Message
| |
John J
Moderator
Conductor
Posts:906
Send Message
| | 12/04/2008 6:00 PM |
| I found this problem when my Nephews were here and I ran trains. I made a long train pulled by two SD45's. It stalled at the top of this grade. Turns out the grade was almost 4 %. There is a bridge involved and a curve. There is a HUMP at the west end of the bridge which adds to the problem. The bridge was not one of my better achievements. So I build a new bridge and installed it with a 2.25 % grade. That means I had to change the approach on the west end of the bridge. I been working at it and working at it. Now I question the accuracy of my Calculating level. The frist bridge I did this I used a 4 ft piece of squar tube and a step wedge graduated in 1/4 inch steps. Well something went wrong there. Well not I got the new bridge at a 2.25 % grade and the approach track at 2.2 or some where in there. I re did my approace after I asked the question here. I will know more sunday after I finish the curve. I will keep you posted. | |
| |
|
Terl
Colorado
Foreman
Posts:114
Send Message
| | 12/06/2008 9:46 AM |
| You'll find that all the effort making the easier grade to be well spent.
Terl | | | |
|
stanman
1st Class Member
Sammamish Washington
Foreman
Posts:132
Send Message
| | 12/06/2008 11:48 AM |
| | The Bernina line on the Swiss RhB is 7% for more than half its total distance. That's a friction line (not cog), but they run electric locos. | |
Stan Silverman
Sammamish, Washington
www.StansTrains.com
| |
|
gwschreyer
Foreman
Posts:110
Send Message
| | 12/06/2008 1:39 PM |
| My indoor layout has lots of 4% grades, some on curves. This limits train length so a few cars at most depending on the loco involved. I also have an R1 spiral at 5.2%. This REALLY limits train length. A Shay can still manage 8 cars but locos in the class of a Big Hauler can handle 3 cars at best. It can be done, just be prepared for the consequences. | |
- gws | |
|
Greg Elmassian
1st Class Member
Carlsbad (San Diego), CA
Engineer
Posts:1618
Send Message
| | 12/06/2008 6:07 PM |
| I have a 3.4% grade on my mainline, along the back fence. The approaches are all level, and the grade is on the straight track. I need more locos to pull long trains, but MU operation and doubleheading is fun.
To complete the mainline, I have a big long 40' section of downhill that is 5.5%. It's steep, but works well. I can run short trains up it also, like 10 cars.
Nasty grades, but workable. I think I saved myself by not having any of the grade on the curve.
Go for it.
Regards, Greg | |
Be sure to visit my site, lots of technical tips and modifications, and you can search for topics and key words.
Click here for Greg's web site | |
|