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Subject: Ties and Spikes - Outdoors
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WebberUser is Offline

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11/11/2008 1:25 PM  
I'm planning to hand lay ties and track for outdoor use. I figure I can pre-build much of it indoors and then install it outside on a ladder or similar firm footing. The ties will be in direct contact with ballast and dirt and stay outdoors year 'round. Any suggestions/experiences as to what type wood and coatings to use? Any suggestions for spikes? The usual (and conflicting) requirements for low cost, high quality, long lasting, great looking, easy to build and maintain, apply. :) - - Web
 
P.S. I'm in the Northeast, so at various times it will freeze, thaw, sizzle in the sun, and be awash with humidity and rain.
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11/11/2008 2:23 PM  
My mixture of pressure treated, redwood and cedar ties have been in for about six years. I've vet to replace any rotten ones.
I used 16 gauge finish nails for a nail gun, they are a bit of a pain to get apart, I soak them in MEK or lacquer thinner. The heads are rectangular
and hold the track very well. I do have a problem with them working up, but a tap when checking the track seats them.

Harvey Campbell
Connecticut
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11/11/2008 2:27 PM  
Great. Which would you say is holding up best, and looking best? Any tips based on your experience?
kormsenUser is Offline

in the middle of the westparaguayan semi desert
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11/11/2008 2:49 PM  
you could try to get Palisander (Palo Santo)
that is a greenish wood with much oils in it.
we use it here for fenceposts.
fifty-plus years without problems.

construction site - keep off!
Pete ThorntonUser is Offline
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Annapolis, MD
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11/11/2008 2:50 PM  
Webber,

Redwood is generally accepted to survive longest, and it turns grey after short exposure outdoors. C&OCRY used to supply pre-cut redwood ties, but ran out of scrap redwood, I think. Kappler Lumber (http://www.kapplerusa.com/y2k/kp-products.htm) sells ties and claims they can do them in redwood to special order (?)

Micro Engineering sells spikes in various sizes (no website? Try http://www.enginetender.com/255m.htm and scroll down for G scale items.) Most folk find that stainless spikes lift out of the ties - ordinary steel rusts and grips the wood as it expands. You certainly won't be able to remove the spikes after a few years!

I found that spiking was easier with some lighter pliers - Micromark sells a pair specially Micromark Spike Insertion Plier which will reduce wear and tear on your hands.  I also used a small cordless drill to pre-drill the ties for the spikes. 

I gave up making my own plain track - too tedious and the Llagas Creek plastic track bases are inexpensive. (http://www.llagastrack.com/) There are several threads in the archives - e.g. http://archive.mylargescale.com/Forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=44764

Pete ThorntonUser is Offline
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11/11/2008 3:05 PM  
Hmmm... I found this thread which asks the same questions!  (Sent you an email too.)

http://archive.mylargescale.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=50651

GarryNCGRRUser is Offline

Langley...B.C. .....Canada
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11/11/2008 3:44 PM  
I'm using red cedar for the ties.  Once cut to length I soak them in used diesel oil for several days,  then set them aside to dry out.  So far have done about 2000 ties that way.  The diesel oil not only treats them against the wet but also turns them very dark...look just like creosoted ties.  I use black steel spikes that I bought from C&OCR,  was told not to use the stainless steel spikes as they won't rust into the ties and have a habit of working lose. 
  I build the track in the house in jigs made for both straight and curved,  the curves in the two diameters I am using.  When finished I can install them on the layout just like using sectional track.  Haven't done any switches as of yet....but that will be soon.  Can't tell you how well it lasts as it is too soon on my layout, but was told by someone who does use the diesel oil and red cedar that he has had no problems in many years,  and expects many more before needing ties replaced.  Anyhow...just my two cents worth.
 
Garry    NCGRR
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11/11/2008 5:38 PM  
Hi
Thanks for the responses. I read that thread before I posted my question. I thought some additional advice and experiences might surface. -- Web
StanleyAmesUser is Offline

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11/16/2008 6:01 PM  
Being in MA I had a lot of trouples with hand laid track. At first I used pressure treated ties and steel spikes. The spikes rusted rather quickly. I then used stainless spikes but they tended to gradually work their way out of the ties.

To solve all of this I am now using a plastic wood for decks to make my ties, predrill holes for the spikes and put a drop of instant glue on the spike before insertion. To date none have come out.

For the turnouts or bridges (bridges have redwood ties) I solder a brass tie plate every foot and screw the rail down. This keeps everything in gauge.

I should also mention I use stainless steel rail.

Hope that helps

Stan Ames
http://www.tttrains.com/sjrp/
TerlUser is Offline

Colorado
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11/17/2008 2:19 AM  
Pine ties on my friends RR needed replacing after about 6 years. Track was spiked with small nails, which were popping up and working loose every winter. Any spike I used on my handlayed track always popped up and worked loose, so I gave up on that method. I use Aluminun rail for my handlaid track. I drill a hole through the foot of the rail, put a 5/8" nail through the hole and clinch the nail over on the underside of the redwood tie. This method holds permanent 20 plus years in my semiarid climate. I had to replace some redwood ties after 20 years outside. Now my preferred method is to use Aristocraft Euro style plastic ties to make my own flextrack. It is faster and I like that I can adjust the curveature when needed.

TERL
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11/17/2008 8:44 AM  
when building turnouts I predrill the ties and when I'm ready to spike I mix up a batch of slow curing epoxy and dip each spike into the epoxy and push them home. Although tedious the process keeps the spikes from working loose...would work on track building also if you take the time...
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