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Thursday, January 08, 2009   You Are Here: Forums

 


Subject: Ladder road frustration
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David RoseUser is Offline

NJ
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10/13/2008 8:32 AM  
Here are some pictures:








David Rose
http://www.FortWildernessRR.com
SA #62
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10/14/2008 10:21 AM  
David,
Your railroad looks great
Glen
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Langley...B.C. .....Canada
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10/14/2008 4:15 PM  
That really came out well,  looks great.  You've given me something to think about for phase three of my layout! 
 
Garry NCGRR
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10/14/2008 4:29 PM  
I see all that nice grass being covered up. Looks great tho.

Marty Cozad
North Table Creek GRR
Nebraska City, NE

Is it "REAL" or just 1:29 th

bruce a mUser is Offline

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10/14/2008 6:15 PM  
Daivd Do you think if I would use 1" PVC pipe and put it 32" to 36" into the ground the freezeing in the winter will not lift the ladder roadbed ?
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10/15/2008 6:44 AM  
 
   David, 
 
How far in the ground are the  PVC pipes. Also how did you get the PVC in the ground? Did you drill down, and if so how?
 
john
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10/15/2008 7:29 AM  
Nice work.

One king held the frankincense,
One king held the myrrh,
One king held the purest gold,
One King held the hope of the world.
-- Point of Grace
Bret W TessonUser is Offline

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10/15/2008 9:03 AM  
My experience with both 3/4 and 2 inch PVC pipe is that you need to keep water OUT of the pipes. Otherwise, water collects and saturates the ground at the bottom of the pipe. If you step on the roadbed after water has been sitting in the pipe for an extended peiod of time, the roadbed will sink. It may also "heave" due to freezing as some have suggested. I found that placing Alumininum tape (found in the heating ductwork section at Lowes or Home Depot) over the top of the pipe works great at keeping the water out and doesn't degrade with sunlight. I also found a 3" garden auger 24 inches long that works great for drilling the holes in dirt. After I drill the hole, I put the tube in the ground and then pound it down a few more inches to really get it set in firm undisturbed soil. This method has provided me with the most solid elevated roadbed so far.
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10/15/2008 9:39 AM  
All,
   Any opinions on how this method holds up over the long hall?  Opinions of haveing to re level the track over time? I live in New Jersey and frost heave is a problem. Has anyone filled the PVC with concrete? Sorry for so many questions but I am on my third railroad and looking for a new and faster method to lay a sturdy road bed.
 
Thanks
Glen
Lakewood NJ 
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10/16/2008 8:39 AM  
Glen:
 
   When I built my R.R. using the ladder method, I did add the ability to adjust the height of the track by making a piece that fit into the PVC conduit. It did pay off during the initial construction, I was able to fine tune the track work were there was changes in the grade. Over the past few seasons I have made some minor adjustments but not many. The photos below will show what I used.
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
   All my uprights are installed to 30" in depth, all uprights over 18" in height are filled with concrete to make them rigged. Some of my uprights reach a height of 36", PVC conduit will bend fairly easy at this height, the concrete takes care of that problem. One bag of concrete goes a long way. On my roadbed I used 1" foam insulation so I don't have the problem with rain water filling the conduit. But, during the construction before the foam was installed I did. I drilled a small hole in the conduit at ground level to act as a drain. Hope this helps.
 
 
 
  

KEN
Rio Grange Southern South Jersey Division
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10/16/2008 10:17 AM  
Ken,
   Thanks for the info. I like your method and will use this idea. I am setting up a somewhat temporary simple loop of track that I can build easily and quickly. Leaving out the landscaping this go around. I do have one question. Did you use a auger or post hole digger to set the PVC pipe? 
   I would really like to visit your railroad. If this would be possible drop me a message outside the forum.  
 
Thanks for your help
 
Glen
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10/16/2008 12:12 PM  
Glen:
 
    When I first started, I new I would be building this layout by myself. I installed one piece in the ground and it was far from being straight. I new at that point I needed to come up with something that would hold the pipe in place as I beat the pipe into the ground. I had everything I needed except for the $4.00 post leveler that I picked up at HD.
 
   ( This is the simple version)
 
   Mount the holder over the point I wish to install the pipe and install four 12" spikes to anchor the holder in place. I level the holder and insert the pipe in the top, at this point I grab a 7 pound mall and beat the pipe into the ground.   
 
 
 
 

KEN
Rio Grange Southern South Jersey Division
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10/16/2008 7:17 PM  
ken,
you must have very nice and deep topsoil down there in New Jersey. I cannot dig 3" in my back yard w/o hitting stones, and it gets worse the further down i go. i had to use a manual post hole shovel and lots of praying (read on my nees whith a small garden tools to get 18" deep. fot the fifteen or so pieces of pvc i planted. as i am on a contiuous 2-1/2 % grade, and with the addition of bridge 44A this summer i am planning on continuing with raiseed benchwork for the remainder of my outdoor  railroad. (railroad will have termial at lizard head ). any more progress on bridges on your layout?
 
 
AL P.
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10/16/2008 7:47 PM  
Al,
   It is all sand down here in Jersey. It is like the beach goes all the way to the Delaware. It is great for building sand castles but is horrible if you wnat to plant anything other then a pine tree.
 
Glen
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silver spring, md
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10/16/2008 8:14 PM  
Tough, rocky clay soil here too. We prefer the power auger with a 2 inch bit -



-Brian

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afineganUser is Offline
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10/17/2008 7:07 AM  
The last 2 raised track builds I had to rent one of those post hole diggers (from home depot), usually get all the posts mounted in the ground in 1 day. I would let it dig down to a full 2 feet though.

Andrew Finegan
SA# 777
Current Project: DJB Coal Fired Ruby

Current Engines:
Accucraft Ruby Butane, DJB Coal Fired Ruby(in construction), Accucraft Shay #2, Aster Thunderbolt
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10/17/2008 11:06 AM  
Al:
 
   My next bridge project is slated for this coming winter, my plan is to build RGS bridge 19a, but as a curved trestle.
 
   Not all of New Jersey is sand, the soil that I have, allowed me to build my layout the way I did. My area does have a good layer of top soil with clay mixed in for good measure. After digging down a foot you hit a layer of gravel which has a lot of stone mixed in with the soil. The bad part is, when it's dry, it like concrete. So before I installed any PVC pipe in the ground I ran a water sprinkler in the area for two days.   

KEN
Rio Grange Southern South Jersey Division
Ward HUser is Offline
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10/20/2008 11:26 AM  
Scott,
I too put my ladder roadbed at ground level. I still used support posts in the trench, built the ladder roadbed, leveled then screwed to the support posts. Then filled to top of ladder with stone dust.
This way the stone dust could settle but the roadbed would still be supported by the posts.
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10/20/2008 11:54 AM  
Well I must say a big thank you to all who have helped me out with this.... :) I have taken the advice and worked with it and now have two additional sections of track down both in a matter of about an hour each!! The 'never rot' stuff from Home Depot does work much easier than what I was doing and though it's not real cheap it is about the same price I would have paid for the stuff. Beside the fact it is easier to get it the shape I want it looks better when ballast is laid over it too.... I went from about 12' of ballasted track to closer to 40' and am now at the point where I will attach power to it and finally be able to run trains outside again. However with winter fast approaching I may not get much more done till spring returns.... I will try to get some photos posted soon.
Thanks agian....


Scott Baxter
Chief Operating Officer
SA #484
GGUser is Offline

St Albert Alberta, Canada
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01/03/2009 3:50 PM  
Gents,

In my area I can't seem to find Tufboard however Trex is available. I agree, trex can be worked however forming bends is a challenge. I was in Home Depot and found 1" x 1.5" x 8' PVC U-channels (edging) for plastic lattice. Bends beautifully to even shorter than a 4' diameter however is u-molded and would need a filler in that area where screwed I would say. This combined with 2" PVC pipe would do the trick as a compromise to Tufboard and Trex??? PVC pipe would be filled with high expansion foam to prevent water from getting in. Thoughts?

gg
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