Spule 4
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 | | 07/24/2008 3:46 PM |
| All:
I read over my Northeast Narrow Gauge kit's instructions last night, and was surprised to see that the recommended glue for the wood kit was CA?
Having built wood kits and scratchbuilt models for nearly 20+ years, and my father building these for over 50, we have used Elmer's (not the kiddy stuff) glue and have had nothing fail in dry/wet hot/cold environments. For wood-metal joints we have either used epoxy or "goo/pliabond" with similar results.
Anyone know why this was suggested, or what has been the luck with this glue in wood kits?
I have used CA with very good luck for resin kits and metal to styrene joints, but never wood-wood or wood-metal. But it is the least favorite of my glues due to working periods and its terribly short shelf life.
Thanks- | |
Garrett
"She'd been in Belgium, she told me...Studying the pyramids. It took her years to find out that there were no pyramids in Belgium." | |
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jnic
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Pennsylvania
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| | 07/24/2008 6:12 PM |
| | No, I can't imagine why - interesting ... You can't go wrong with Tite Bond II or III. That's what I used for my wood cab. Squeeze a little onto a paper plate and you can apply just the right amout to the smallest of details. | | | |
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Jerry Barnes
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| | 07/24/2008 7:16 PM |
| | CA gel works well. Jerry | |
Life is too short to take seriously. | |
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Spule 4
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| | 07/24/2008 8:05 PM |
| Posted By jnic on 07/24/2008 6:12 PM No, I can't imagine why - interesting ... You can't go wrong with Tite Bond II or III. That's what I used for my wood cab. Squeeze a little onto a paper plate and you can apply just the right amout to the smallest of details.
Yes, I forgot about your cab. Not familiar with Tite Bond, but I will check it out on google or the like and see what I can find, thank you!
Posted By Jerry Barnes on 07/24/2008 7:16 PM
CA gel works well. Jerry
Yes, I have used this on resin kits before for larger bits (say, body to frame) and there it worked well. I would imagine it would work better than the thin as far as "wicking" into the wood?
May have to try some and see for myself, thanks!
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Garrett
"She'd been in Belgium, she told me...Studying the pyramids. It took her years to find out that there were no pyramids in Belgium." | |
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altterrain
silver spring, md
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| | 07/24/2008 8:41 PM |
| The folks who make the Smith Pond Junction kits recommend Testor's wood cement. I used it for one of their barn kits and it has held up well for the past year and a half. I also like Titebond II and Phenoseal vinyl adhesive caulk (like an exterior grade Elmer's white glue) for wood projects.
-Brian | |
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Dwight Ennis
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Milpitas, CA
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| | 07/24/2008 8:56 PM |
| | I've been using Sheldon's Hobbies brand of thick CA on wood models for over twenty years. All my Hartford kits are assembled with it. It works great so long as the model isn't left outdoors. | |
Dwight Ennis
Milpitas, CA
SA #21
http://www.SantaCruzLumberCo.com
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Spule 4
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| | 07/24/2008 9:24 PM |
| Dwight, yes, I saw your built Hartford models on your site, VERY nice. Your models were one of the things that influenced me to order a kit from them (Fall River Carter gondola) that did not arrive when the young man who answered the phone said it would, and now with them not answering the phone or returning messages, I am afraid I will never see it  ...... hmm, gotta check the credit card bill and see if I was charged?
It sounds as if you, Brian et al, have had good luck with CA and other glues as the Rea family has had with Elmers.....sounds to me it may be a matter of personal choice Vs your model will self destruct or vapourize if one were not to use CA? | |
Garrett
"She'd been in Belgium, she told me...Studying the pyramids. It took her years to find out that there were no pyramids in Belgium." | |
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Spule 4
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| | 07/24/2008 9:27 PM |
| | ....also Dwight, agreed on not leaving stuff outdoors. I do have a couple basswood HOn3 models of my father's that survived a basement pipe rupture about 20 years ago. Other than looking a bit weathered (actually it looks good, grey showing under the paint!) and the wall of one engine shed developing a slight bow, no harm done! | |
Garrett
"She'd been in Belgium, she told me...Studying the pyramids. It took her years to find out that there were no pyramids in Belgium." | |
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Scottychaos
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Rochester, NY
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| | 07/25/2008 12:15 PM |
| I am a total convert to CA for wood..I will never go back!
I used a medium viscosity "gap filling" CA for this project:
http://gold.mylargescale.com/Scottychaos/29n2/29n2-page8.html
works great!
its not water-based like "elmers"..so no warping from the water, and it sets after about 10 seconds of holding by hand..no long-term clamping necessary..
I love it!  "
CA will however dissolve in water..it wont work well for structures intended to be left outdoors long term. (I wouldnt leave a wood structure outdoors long-term anyway, regardless of the glue used..only plastic or metal structures.)
but for wood rolling stock kits that will only be RUN outdoors, and not left out in the rain, CA is a great choice.
This is what I used:
http://www.jetglues.com/images/products/super-jet.shtml
Scot | |
Scot Lawrence
Rochester, NY USA
SA #2089 | |
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Dwight Ennis
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Milpitas, CA
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| | 07/25/2008 1:58 PM |
| Garrett - I scratchbuilt these HOn3 models some twenty years ago using the Sheldon's brand thick CA. Both are still hanging tough and neither has started to fall apart yet. The roundhouse spent at least 10 years stored in the garage rafters. I took it down not long ago 'cause someone wanted to see, photograph, and measure it. It's still just fine.
BTW, my Hartford kits were ordered and built while Bob still owned the business - some 6-7 years ago. They get some fairly rough handling when I tote them around to steamups. I've had a brake beam or two come loose during a derailment. I just CA them back on. | |
Dwight Ennis
Milpitas, CA
SA #21
http://www.SantaCruzLumberCo.com
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Spule 4
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| | 07/25/2008 3:43 PM |
| Posted By Scottychaos on 07/25/2008 12:15 PM I am a total convert to CA for wood..I will never go back! CA will however dissolve in water..it wont work well for structures intended to be left outdoors long term. (I wouldnt leave a wood structure outdoors long-term anyway, regardless of the glue used..only plastic or metal structures.) but for wood rolling stock kits that will only be RUN outdoors, and not left out in the rain, CA is a great choice. This is what I used: http://www.jetglues.com/images/products/super-jet.shtml Scot
I wonder how long term humidity will be handled by this? My resin stuff stays inside with Aircon for the most part, and the oldest of these kits (Westerfield G22 in HO) is about 5 or so years old.http://www.tcry.org/cd/prr_g22.htm so no problems there. The large stuff may find itself in the shop or shed from time to time.
Posted By Dwight Ennis on 07/25/2008 1:58 PM BTW, my Hartford kits were ordered and built while Bob still owned the business - some 6-7 years ago. " border=0> They get some fairly rough handling when I tote them around to steamups. I've had a brake beam or two come loose during a derailment. I just CA them back on. " border=0>
Dwight- Thanks, I did not realize that there was a change in onwership until after I ordered and others posted that they too were getting no response....sounds like LaBelle, that company has had at least 4 owners in as many decades, but the current owner is doing well by his customers.
Amazing the durability when you look at the photos, the disconnects you have look like museum models. Very nice work.
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Garrett
"She'd been in Belgium, she told me...Studying the pyramids. It took her years to find out that there were no pyramids in Belgium." | |
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Spule 4
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| | 08/01/2008 9:10 PM |
| Posted By jnic on 07/24/2008 6:12 PM No, I can't imagine why - interesting ... You can't go wrong with Tite Bond II or III. That's what I used for my wood cab. Squeeze a little onto a paper plate and you can apply just the right amout to the smallest of details.
Thanks, I have used the TiteBond II from out local Ace. Seems to be working well so far.
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Garrett
"She'd been in Belgium, she told me...Studying the pyramids. It took her years to find out that there were no pyramids in Belgium." | |
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Dwight Ennis
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Milpitas, CA
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| | 08/02/2008 8:11 AM |
| BTW, the R/C airplane guys use thin CA to build their planes. As an example, once the spars and ribs (all made of wood) are pinned to the plans, thin CA is run into all the joints. Curing is almost instantaneous. Thin CA is also used to apply the sheeting to the wings. Again, it's pinned into place with straight pins and thin CA run into all the joints. The same methods are used to build the fuselage and the rest of he plane. In fact, it was while I was into R/C planes that I first started using the stuff.
The disadvantage for model railroad usage is that wood so assembled doesn't take stain well, and the thin CA when curing bubbles out around the joints - sort of like Gorrilla Glue, but not as bad. R/C planes are usually covered in an iron-on coating or the wood sealed and painted, so this isn't an issue for them. To avoid these issues, I started using thick CA for my railroad models, and pre-staining the parts before assembly.
The stuff is incredibly strong , doesn't need to be clamped while curing, and cures very quickly (a couple of minutes). You should try it sometime. | |
Dwight Ennis
Milpitas, CA
SA #21
http://www.SantaCruzLumberCo.com
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Jerry Barnes
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Lexington, NE
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| | 08/02/2008 8:45 AM |
| | I use a 'kicker' sometimes also to speed up the drying. Jerry | |
Life is too short to take seriously. | |
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rkapuaala
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OZ
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| | 08/02/2008 10:59 AM |
| I use a combination of CA and Tightbond. I used to buy the CA gels and Kickers, but have found that I can use regular CA as long as I remember to prime both surfaces first, and on end grain prime it 2X before attaching the joining surface.
My reasons for not using the gels anymore or primarily shelf life.
The reason for not using the kickers is that I didn't like the smell of the fumes even in well ventilated areas.
Here is an example of CA in use on coach 64 project
I use CA primarily on parts where clamps are impossible or impracticale to apply.
I've been using CA on wood for over 24 years now on ship models and on a lot of my HO projects. To date I've had no failed joints on CA.
I also use rubber cement on some applications and have had no problems with that either as long as you seal it. | |
I keep forgetting we're not in Kansas! | |
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Spule 4
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| | 08/02/2008 11:07 AM |
| There have been a couple areas where CA may be better than the tite bond now that I am into this kit. I have some around the house, so I may try it when it comes to the final body work.
Thanks again for the tips! | |
Garrett
"She'd been in Belgium, she told me...Studying the pyramids. It took her years to find out that there were no pyramids in Belgium." | |
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Dwight Ennis
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altterrain
silver spring, md
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| | 08/02/2008 12:19 PM |
| Posted By Dwight Ennis on 08/02/2008 11:48 AM My reasons for not using the gels anymore or primarily shelf life. Make sure it is tightly capped and store it in the refrig. " border=0>
Oh great! Now, I'm supposed to store it in the fridge. Just another thing for the wife to b!#$% at me for. 
-Brian | |
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Spule 4
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| | 08/02/2008 2:12 PM |
| | Why we have multi fridges..... | |
Garrett
"She'd been in Belgium, she told me...Studying the pyramids. It took her years to find out that there were no pyramids in Belgium." | |
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rkapuaala
1st Class Member
OZ
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| | 08/02/2008 10:54 PM |
| Make sure it is tightly capped and store it in the refrig. " border=0>
The frig was out of the question back then, since my kid was only about 5 then and very curious and careless. He's 21 now so maybe that might work. 2 Frigs are out of the question here in CA. I can barely afford to keep enough lights on not to hurt myself with what we pay for utilities  " border=0> | |
I keep forgetting we're not in Kansas! | |
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