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Subject: Beginning a new locomotive
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DKRickmanUser is Offline
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09/07/2008 5:03 PM  
Posted By cjwalas on 09/07/2008 5:00 PM
I think you have a good number of "lurkers" on this thread, Ken. Probably just waiting for the right thing to comment on??
Chris


That was my thought as well. Just wanted to check, as I would hate to be wasting MLS web space just to see my pictures published. :)

Kenneth Rickman - krickman1@carolina.rr.com
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09/07/2008 5:15 PM  
Hi Ken,

I'm interested in how you are doing the driver centers. Please keep the posts and photos comming.

Thanks Chuckger
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09/08/2008 9:20 AM  
Keep'em coming I always enjoy a good bash! :)

Kitbashing, welcome to the Dark Side
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09/08/2008 9:46 AM  
Posted By vsmith on 09/08/2008 9:20 AM
Keep'em coming I always enjoy a good bash! <img src=" border=0>



I, mate! Love to see more freelance pixs!




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09/09/2008 9:38 AM  
Posted By Ole Toad Frog on 09/08/2008 9:46 AM
Posted By vsmith on 09/08/2008 9:20 AM
Keep'em coming I always enjoy a good bash! <img src=" border=0>" border=0>

I, mate! Love to see more freelance pixs!




Fair enough! I'l keep at it. At the moment, I'm in the middle of replacing all the carpet in the house with laminate, so I'm either bent over working on the floor, or sitting down wondering why I didn't just pay someone to do it for me.

We will return you to your regularly scheduled kitbashing after this brief iterruption.

Kenneth Rickman - krickman1@carolina.rr.com
Salisbury, NC
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09/21/2008 3:15 PM  
I've been away too long... this thread was half way down my second page of posts. I have managed to get a little done, at least. Also, posted a question over in this thread.

So far, I have all 4 driver centers out and scrapped. New ones will be made somehow. The crank pins have been shortened, and new brass bushings slipped over each pin. The rods now have very little slop in them, compared to a great deal before. I discovered that I'd actually removed a little too much from the main crank pins and main rods, causing an interference between the crossheads and front crank pin bolt heads. Hopefully, simply angling the main rods a bit so that the crossheads are spread further will solve that problem. And finally, I've cut the cylinder saddle and narrowed each side by 1.5mm, bringing the cylinders in line with the narrower rods. No pictures at the moment, because there's not really much worth seeing.

Next up on the project list is to make a new crosshead guide bracket, and finally get the entire drive portion assembled. Then I can put power on the motor, and see how many binds the mechanism has. Wouldn't it be nice if it ran smoothly on the first try? Not likely, but nice.....

By the way, does anybody know if it's safe to ACC the plastic axle bearings into the gear bracket? Right now, they're loose on the axles, and every time I take it out, the darn things slide around, and have to be slipped back into place to put the motor & rear axle back into the block. I'm not talking about the main bearings - those are brass, and ride in slots in the chassis. The ones I'm talking about are to hold the gear box in alignment with the axle.

Kenneth Rickman - krickman1@carolina.rr.com
Salisbury, NC
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09/24/2008 1:14 PM  
I've learned a few things in the past few days.

A table saw is very useful for cutting the cylinders off a saddle. It's also good at destroying any part that's free to move in the least way.

It's a lot easier to make a part properly the first time than it is to cut it up and adjust it later.

PVC pipe cement will bond styrene to PVC pipe. It will also dissolve styrene if it's allowed to glob up behind it.

And finally, a coat of paint hides a host of sins!

I've been working on the cylinder saddle and pilot deck. Finally getting around to capping the cylinders. I also added the valve chests, truck spring canister, and layed out the location of the smokebox braces.


You can see how the .015" styrene cylinder caps have warped and wrinkled from the PVC cement behind them. I drilled holes for the piston rods and drain cocks, hoping that opening the cylinders would allow the solvents to evaporate. When everything dries completely, I'll putty and sand the caps smooth. Ironically, I kind of like the look of the raised perimeter, so I may make some styrene rings to finish the ends properly. I suspect that the final look will not be decided until the work is done.

I'm thinking of painting the whole thing blue, with Russia iron cylinder jackets and blue caps, possibly with gold or white lining on the cylinder caps, valve chests, and deck edging. Any opinions?

{edit} In looking at the pictures, it looks like the cylinders are not parallel.  They are, as close as I can measure and see.  The distortion is an artifact of the camera angle.

Kenneth Rickman - krickman1@carolina.rr.com
Salisbury, NC
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09/24/2008 1:47 PM  
Ken,
 
 I thought you did the raised cylinder sections on purpose!!  I like reading these kinds of posts because it gives me inspiration to cut and bash my seldom or unused trains.
 
Mark


Mark Oles
Millersvillanova Railroad, Lancaster, PA

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09/24/2008 2:36 PM  
Posted By markoles on 09/24/2008 1:47 PM
Ken,
 
 I thought you did the raised cylinder sections on purpose!!  I like reading these kinds of posts because it gives me inspiration to cut and bash my seldom or unused trains.
 
Mark
 
 
Mark, It almost looks that way, doesn't it? If the wrinkles were more even, I'd leave them. As it is, I'll fix them, then re-make the center portions under more controlled circumstances. By all means, start cutting and bashing! It's a lot easier than it looks at first glance, and a load of fun to boot.
 
As someone's signature around here suggests, do something, even if it's wrong.  Styrene is remarkably easy to work with, and almost anything can be made and re-made.  Mistakes are usually pretty simple to repair, if somewhat time consuming.  Basically, don't be afraid to get in there and hack something up.  It may take a while, but you'll eventually get the results you want, and be darn proud of what you've acomplished.
 
For the record, this is my first ever scratchbuilding project.

Kenneth Rickman - krickman1@carolina.rr.com
Salisbury, NC
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DKRickmanUser is Offline
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09/27/2008 5:12 PM  
I'm rather proud of how well this turned out.
 
 
The flourescent yellow rings were cut from the body of a highlighter marker.  It's hard to see, but there's a strene rod glued around the perimeter as a trim ring.
 
The front is made up od several styrene disks and rings, sanded smooth and stacked.  The ball at the center is the head of a sewing pin, the shaft of which was cut short and superglued into a hole in the cylinder cover.
 
It's almost ready for paint now.  All I have left to add is the front beam, drain cocks, and valve stem glands.
 
Quite a change from the oringinal B'mann part, or this, for that matter:


Kenneth Rickman - krickman1@carolina.rr.com
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09/27/2008 6:20 PM  
Posted By DKRickman on 09/24/2008 1:14 PM
"I've learned a few things in the past few days.
PVC pipe cement will bond styrene to PVC pipe."
 
 
WARNING!    Unfortunately, you're going to learn the last word of that statement...."temporarily".  While it will seem like an amazing, strong and convenient adhesive at first, PVC cement will release completely from the styrene over time.  I didn't discover this until long after I had completed a major bash. I had to disassemble, clean, reglue and repaint all of the bonds originally between styrene and PVC. I strongly suggest that you do this now on your model to avoid having to go through the same thing I did!
Chris


Chris Walas - Rogue County Rwy
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09/27/2008 7:02 PM  
Posted By cjwalas on 09/27/2008 6:20 PM
Posted By DKRickman on 09/24/2008 1:14 PM
"I've learned a few things in the past few days.
PVC pipe cement will bond styrene to PVC pipe."
WARNING!    Unfortunately, you're going to learn the last word of that statement...."temporarily".  While it will seem like an amazing, strong and convenient adhesive at first, PVC cement will release completely from the styrene over time.  I didn't discover this until long after I had completed a major bash. I had to disassemble, clean, reglue and repaint all of the bonds originally between styrene and PVC. I strongly suggest that you do this now on your model to avoid having to go through the same thing I did!
Chris
 
 Oh joy!  Unfortunately, at this point, disasembly would involve destroying quite a bit of work.  I bonded the 1/8"  strip around the cylinder with ACC, and slopped quite a bit all over the place.  Hopefully this will serve to hold the caps in place, even if the PC cement bond does fail.  At least they're not structural, and would probably stay put without any glue at all.
 
Iwas getting excited, but ran out of ACC.  I decided to see what else I had around the house that would work.  Sounds like I should have waited until I could get more ACC.
 
Is it possible that there are/were multiple formulations of PVC cement?  I made a test joint with scraps of pipe and sttrene, and the bond seemed good.  I just checked it (3 days later) and I can not break the joint.  It seems to have dissolved the styrene, and when tested to failure, the styrene tore apart before the joint.  I am not doubting your advice at all, but I am curious.<

Kenneth Rickman - krickman1@carolina.rr.com
Salisbury, NC
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09/28/2008 2:25 PM  
I hope you're right and that there are various (and very different) PVC glues. The one that I have experience with is Red Hot Blue Glue (I think that's what it's called). And the bond seems too good to be true at first. I remember being overjoyed as I use so much of both PVC and styrene. I don't think the failure shows up for at least six months or more, at least that's when I first spotted it. I hoped it was just the odd bond, but virtually every single bond failed completely. I was devastated.
There very well may be better PVC glues for bonding with styrene, but I sure wouldn't commit to a model without a year's test on a bond first.
Please let us know if your PVC glue holds up under time as it would be fantastic to find a really dependable PVC/styrene bonding agent.
Chris


Chris Walas - Rogue County Rwy
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09/28/2008 3:51 PM  
Posted By cjwalas on 09/28/2008 2:25 PM
I hope you're right and that there are various (and very different) PVC glues. The one that I have experience with is Red Hot Blue Glue (I think that's what it's called).
 
Chris,
 
I sure hope I'm right as well!  I guess we'll learn soon enough, won't we?  The product I used Is Oatey brand "Medium Clear PVC Cement."  The label says it contains Tetrahydrofuran, PVC Resin, Acetone, Methyl Ethly Ketone, Cyclohexanone and Amorpous Silica.  I cannot comment on the other ingredients, but I use both acetone and MEK to solvent weld styrene, which is ehat leads me to hope that all will turn out well in the end.  I'll let everyone know the results in the future.
 
Heck, at the rate I'm going, I'll still be working on this engine a year from now!

Kenneth Rickman - krickman1@carolina.rr.com
Salisbury, NC
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DKRickmanUser is Offline
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09/28/2008 8:12 PM  
Every so often, I have to prop all the parts together to get a feel for how the loco is progressing. I thought you might like to see how she looks tonight. I'm happy.




There is obviously still quite a bit to do, but she's finally starting to look like a locomotive again.

Kenneth Rickman - krickman1@carolina.rr.com
Salisbury, NC
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09/29/2008 8:21 AM  
I found this:



It's a little runny and sets up quickly but it holds great and is specifically made to bond dissimilar plastics - including styrene.
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09/29/2008 10:29 AM  
I don't think styrene is the problem. There are a number of very good adhesives for styrene. I just went through the Weld-on site and there's only one glue recommended for PVC and styrene. It's their number 790. Haven't tried it, but I may have to track some down!
Chris


Chris Walas - Rogue County Rwy
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09/29/2008 10:48 AM  
Chris,

My thought was/is that the MEK in the PVC cement would dissolve the styrene, while the other hydrocarbons would dissolve the PVC. Thus, both plastics will solvent-weld together, or at the very least intermix in such a way that there is a physical, rather than chemical, bond. That's the theory, at least.

Kenneth Rickman - krickman1@carolina.rr.com
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09/29/2008 11:11 AM  
Ken,
I get the theory. It's exactly what I thought would work as well. It didn't. While the styrene definitely dissolved on the surface, the two plastics never worked into each other.
The Red Hot Blue Glue has most of the same contents as the Oaty. The MEK definitely melts the styrene, but that doesn't mean it bonds with the PVC, even as a mechanical bond. Most PVC glues are dissolved PVC and PVC solvent. I suspect (don't really know) that the MEK in PVC cement is more to keep the glue in solution and slow the eventual set up of the PVC.
I hate to be a Doomsayer here, but with my experience, I can't say I have much faith in your theory. But I REALLY hope I'm wrong, for your sake!
Chris


Chris Walas - Rogue County Rwy
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09/29/2008 4:28 PM  
Posted By cjwalas on 09/29/2008 11:11 AM
I hate to be a Doomsayer here, but with my experience, I can't say I have much faith in your theory. But I REALLY hope I'm wrong, for your sake!
Chris
 
Chris,
 
I can't say that I have much faith in my theory either, especially sine you have all the expereince, and I have none.  But we shall see.  With a little luck, either the cement will hold, or some of the other stuff I've glopped all over the joint will hold instead.  I sure hope I don't have to re-make those darned cylinders - it took me months to get the nerve and inspiration to build them the first time!
 
In other news, the lead truck spring arrangement is in, and seems to work well.  It's stiff, especially side to side, but still movable.  There is some downward pressure on the truck, but not enough to lift the front driver, even with a bare chassis, so hopefully that will work out well.  As for the side to side, pushing on the wheels will make the truck swing a couple degrees before moving the chassis (sitting on the workbench).  I'm hoping that once the model is assembled, weighted, and put on the rails, the truck will do it's jpb of leading the engine without being so stiff that it rides up over the outside rail in a curve.  One advantage to using wire (or brass rod, in my case) as a spring is that it's easy to adjust the spring rate by using a different diameter wire.  Pictures will be posted soon.

Kenneth Rickman - krickman1@carolina.rr.com
Salisbury, NC
If at first you don't succeed, use a bigger hammer!
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