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Richard Smith
1st Class Member
Port Orford, Oregon
Foreman
Posts:446
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 | | 09/20/2008 9:58 PM |
| I used a card system for many years when I was in HO. Modified over time it worked quite well but our "standard" train was 10 cars give or take a couple. I can understand when Doug mentions what a pain the card system can be with long trains, unless you are switching blocks of cars instead of individual cars. I inherently like the card system because I used it for so long but I didn't have rain or wind to contend with indoors. Fred's idea of punched holes in the cards and holding them together with a binder ring is something I never thought of...a great idea!
In a day before computers were common (yes, I go back that far hehe!) waybills were a pain for an operation of any size but were great for operation if you could find someone that enjoyed being the clerk. I don't think that I want to go the waybill route or use a computer program for my very limited sized shortline and mostly solo ops but until the railroad is completed I have plenty of time to experiment and improvise so nothing will be ruled out at present.
The tack system is something I experimented with very briefly but rejected in favor of the cards. I'm reinvestigating it now because it is weather proof and simple while still allowing the randomness I want if set up properly. I think I can designate empties and loads but actually all that matters is that the car is moved logically regardless of its status. A move is a move after all whether empty or load.
The car for car method as Ric mentions can be fun and I have used it but lacks the randomness I desire. By randomness I mean quantity of cars as well as actual movement. I want the problem that occasionally there will be too many cars for a given siding requiring a car to be set out somewhere and delivered to the siding on another day. And also times where the train is very abreviated with few cars to be moved. Just my own personal quirk I guess. These individual preferences and differences help to make ops on other RR's much more interesting as far as I'm concerned. Operate on a host RR with his rules and with his equipment in his way adds variety as well as giving a different perspective on things.
Keep the pros and cons coming on all of these methods and whatever others that might come to mind please. What suits one of us may not be right for another so the more info the better. This is a most interesting thread. Thanks for all the input and to Bruce for starting it. | |
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| East Broad Top
Moderator
Centennial, CO
Conductor
Posts:601
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| | 09/21/2008 4:29 PM |
| My railroad is really built around a single operator/one-train-at-a-time operation. I wrote up the basic premise here:
http://archive.mylargescale.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=33073
I've got a spreadsheet with each car on the roster, and a day-by-day schedule of where each car moves next. When I operate, I just haul up as many cars as I feel like, pick a day to start, and place each car in its appropriate location. It usually takes me a bit over an hour to go through a day's freight movements, so on a good day, I do two or three days' worth of trains. Not every car moves every day, so there's always variation and "parked" cars to work around.
And some days, I just put cars out and wing it...
Later,
K | |
Tuscarora Railroad
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| Fred
Brakeman
Posts:48
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| | 09/21/2008 6:24 PM |
| Richard,
When I had my HO layout I made over 200 of the waybills to clip to the 3x5 car card. Although the railroad had over 50 online industries & 10 working interchanges which required a lot of waybills,I used to enjoy making them. Back then I was working where I had access to the consist of every PC/CR frt train operating so I would pickout some car numbers and see the car originated, where it was going, what other railroads it would travel over and what it contained. Since I modeled the 1965 time frame I would then get out the Official Guide to see what the rr was back then: GN, NP, CBQ, NYC, PRR, SOU, LN. etc. Even though I wasn't a clerk for the railraod, I did enjoy car tracing. I remember once I traced a car of steel coming out of Pittsburg bound for St Paul, Minn. It was routed on CR's PITO to Toledo, Ohio then Ann Arbor to Elberta, Mi where it was to be put on a AA car ferry over to Wisconsin and the GBW to Minn and the BN. What struck me as odd was that since the AA RR was thr rr I pattened my HO layout on, I knew the car ferriy operation no longer existed. I never did find out what happened to that car after CR handed it off to the AA in Toledo. | | | |
| Richard Smith
1st Class Member
Port Orford, Oregon
Foreman
Posts:446
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| | 09/22/2008 12:43 AM |
| " What struck me as odd was that since the AA RR was thr rr I pattened my HO layout on, I knew the car ferriy operation no longer existed. I never did find out what happened to that car after CR handed it off to the AA in Toledo. "
Hehe! Sort of like interchanging cars with some model railroads!  | |
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| Dougald
Moderator
Foreman
Posts:427
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| | 09/22/2008 5:16 AM |
| Richard
Now that you mention it, I noticed a POC boxcar pass through Craig Leigh yard last saturday on the IPP&W. VP Mills told me that paying demurrage was cheaper than building our own ...
Regards ... Doug
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Doug Matheson
Manotick Ontario
SA #122 | |
| Richard Smith
1st Class Member
Port Orford, Oregon
Foreman
Posts:446
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| | 09/22/2008 4:41 PM |
| Posted By Dougald on 09/22/2008 5:16 AM
Richard
Now that you mention it, I noticed a POC boxcar pass through Craig Leigh yard last saturday on the IPP&W. VP Mills told me that paying demurrage was cheaper than building our own ...
Regards ... Doug
Haha! That's okay 'cause I learned the same thing. Got boxcars from both the IPP&W and the J&B doing duty on the POC. Plus the deadhead costs for ferrying those cars through the Panama Canal means they're permanent fixtures.
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| Bruce Chandler
Freeloader
Foreman
Posts:249
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| | 09/22/2008 5:34 PM |
| It seems to be a common problem. I caught these three on the J&B.
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Bruce | |
| Bruce Chandler
Freeloader
Foreman
Posts:249
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| | 09/24/2008 10:12 AM |
| Another thing to consider in operations is accessibility.
I found this especially true with track laid on the ground. You need to make sure that you can get to the places you need to uncouple, AND that you have enough stability to reach down and uncouple the cars.
You will typically need to uncouple on sidings, but you may also find that you need to break a train just before a siding.
I looked at this spot and decided I wanted some more industry here.
It looks pretty open, right?
Well, when I started thinking about putting some industries there, reality crept in.
I need room to step.
Here's my current plan.
I will have a produce shed on the right. And near the current hand car shed, I will put in some fuel tanks for my fuel dealer.
But, while I was operating, I noticed where I had to put my feet. Those areas are marked in green. It's critical that I keep some areas for stepping near the house, because this is where my passing track is. It's typically used for run-around moves, so I need to be able to reach in and uncouple cars.
Unfortunately, it's also on a slope. Right now, I'm using some old railroad spikes there as "brakes" for any cars left on the siding. The problem is, that once under the car, they're hard to see. I'm now thinking about using some slender rod, maybe about 12-18" high, with a flag on one end. You'd just stick this in the ballast between the rails to provide a stop for the cars. With the flag, it would be easy to see. Of course, I haven't made any of these yet. | |
Bruce | |
| Dougald
Moderator
Foreman
Posts:427
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| | 09/24/2008 11:16 AM |
| Bruce makes a good point ... and elevated track is ideal. It brings the cars up to a decent level for reading reporting marks and for uncoupling. However, it makes building gardens harder and of course, many of us have significant ground level track already installed.
Kevin Strong has indicated in the past that he (or his father?) keeps a few flat stones around ... whenever he needs to step in the garden to reach for a switch or to uncouple he places a stone (permanently) at that point. This is also a very good scheme for reserving footspace so to speak.
My own experiences have led me to the belief that fewer buildings work better as the space is needed for other things. I have limited myself strictly to considering only buildings that are railroad related.
Regards ... Doug | |
Doug Matheson
Manotick Ontario
SA #122 | |
| Fred
Brakeman
Posts:48
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| | 09/24/2008 1:08 PM |
| | I carry in my pockets those little blue like screwdrivers that come with arist screws, you stick it in the ground in the gage of the track against the coupler, works great. i think Ric calls them his "blue flag". | | | |
| Bruce Chandler
Freeloader
Foreman
Posts:249
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| | 09/24/2008 4:42 PM |
| And, speaking of railroad industries, you don't need THAT many. I was surprised the other day as I was compiling a list of "ALL" of my industries that I switch: - Matheson Textiles
- Mills Fuels
- Salmons Produce
- Team Track
- McCown Freight
- Old Mill
- Miracle Chair Company
- Interchange track
I thought I had more. And until my most recent session, I had two less. I opened up the tracks you see above. But even without those two, I got over 90 minutes of entertainment with one train. These two industries should add a few more challenges. If I want to go longer, I can always run my other daily train.
One thing that helps is having both trailing and facing point switches at one of my towns. This adds some random challenges. Doug also inspired me to try some local moves within a town. He also suggested adding an opposite facing switch at my second town. I just finished the switch tonight. Not sure when I'll be able to put it on the layout as there's a bunch of rain forecast for the next three days.
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Bruce | |
| Dougald
Moderator
Foreman
Posts:427
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| | 09/24/2008 5:18 PM |
| Bruce It is surprising the amount of switching that can be had from just a few industries providing the towns are well planned. A rule of thumb I use is to place at least three sidings per town with at least one siding facing the opposite of the other two. This then requires a runaround or passing track to complete the switching. There is a tendency to want to simplify the switching by making all sidings face the same direction but I would resist this. A way to make even this scenario more challenging is to use the so called passing or runaround track as a teamtrack. Now to switch the facing point spur, the cars will have to be moved on the team track and of course respotted after. A second way to do this is to dopuble head ... now with careful cooperation between two engineers all the sidings can be switched without using the runaround. That would make a good challenge for you and Mike next time Bruce ... double head your wayfreight for switching Jackson and place cars on the runaround track saying they must not be moved. When planning a railroad for operations, there are basically two types of challenges to keep crews interested. One challenge is heavy switching, the other is getting trains over the road in a prototypical manner. The first requires relatively congested switching locations while the second requires a significant mainline run between several towns. Large railroads can accomodate both situations for the ultimate operations experience ... this is the situation on the IPP&W where the OVGRS operates. But most of us have smaller railroads and must be content with only one (usually the first) of these situations. even so, as you have demonstarted, a lot of ops are possible. Regards ... Doug | |
Doug Matheson
Manotick Ontario
SA #122 | |
| East Broad Top
Moderator
Centennial, CO
Conductor
Posts:601
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| | 10/01/2008 1:01 AM |
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Bruce, is that Precision Products' 1:1 brick sheet on the side of the house? :D
The flat rock trick is one I picked up from dad. I've still got two spots on the line that are a bit difficult to reach, but I've developed creative workarounds so it's not an issue. (Offset the couplers so they don't couple, then push the car into the siding.)
Bruce mentions trailing point switches. They definitely add to the "fun" of operations.
In the foreground of this shot is the tannery spur. The box car is sitting on the spur where hides and finished leathers would be loaded and unloaded. The tail is where the tanbark would be offloaded. You've got to move the bark cars in order to switch out the box cars. Shade Gap is the most challenging siding to switch, as you have to deal with switching the tannery spur, moving empty bark cars to the passing siding so they can be returned to Neelyton, and grabbing the empty hopper car from the tipple so it can be moved to Blacklog. It's also got a rather short passing siding at 4 or 5 cars maximum, so it's capacity as a runaround is generally limited to running around three or four cars to switch them to the appropriate spurs, leaving the rest of the train parked on the mainline.
One concept that is rarely modeled, and Bruce's spur made me think of it--gravity switching. Most of the mines on the EBT were switched by gravity. A string of empties would be spotted on the uphill side of the tipple, then cut loose one by one, filled, drifted across the scale to be weighed, then assembled into the train on the downhill side. I'd imagine you'd have to emphasize the grade just a bit, but it could easily be done. Add ball-bearing wheels to your gravity-switched cars, and you've really got an operation going. Come to think of it, I could probably do that very easily on my two tipple tracks. Hmmm, gotta think about that one. 
Later,
K | |
Tuscarora Railroad
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