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Richard Smith
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Port Orford, Oregon
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 | | 09/01/2008 9:09 PM |
| Posted By toddalin on 09/01/2008 6:45 PM Posted By Richard Smith on 09/01/2008 2:40 PM
For a broad definition I would state priority rather than degree of modeling/gardening. In the broadest terms a garden railroader is one that emphasizes the garden with the railroad as part of it. An outdoor railroader on the other hand emphasizes the railroad with the garden, if any, subordinate regardless of level of expertise or adherence to prototype. And what about the guy who goes outside and throws a few loops of track on the ground, levels it out, and ballasts it in, and puts in a couple small shrubs around without preference to either? (We saw some of these at the national convention too.) To me, he is also an "outdoor railroader."
Todd,
The key words here are broad definition. A flower pot on a patio could be one man's garden and a 4' diameter loop of track an outdoor railroad as much as one with a 10 acre flowered plot and 2000 feet of track. The two together could be considered either depending on its owner's priorities. We could split hairs with semantics 'til the cows come home but a broad definition should be without excess details. The idea was to avoid a long discourse covering every possible combination or circumstance. Already this explanation is longer than my original post.
Of course to play the semantics game could we not reasonably say that someone who "goes outside and throws a few loops of track on the ground, levels it out, and ballasts it in, and puts in a couple small shrubs around" is giving preference to both rather than not to either? That makes more sense because presumably he would care about both or he wouldn't have bothered with them in the first place.
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| joe rusz
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| | 09/01/2008 10:01 PM |
| I have never seen a non-garden railroad in Garden Railroad Magazine, of course.
I'm a little confused here, Blackburn49. When you say "a non-garden railroad" do you mean an outdoor model railroad with no plants that's not set in a traditional garden? Or do you mean a model railroad that's not outdoors? At any rate, you are wrong on both counts. Garden Railways often does features on outdoor model railroads, most notably, Bob Treat's Snow Creek Railroad, one of the finest in the country, plus other (mostly) West Coast lines. Likewise, GR has covered, in the August 2008 issue for example, an indoor line (that's non-garden, right?), the Seath Valley Railroad built by Mike Garforth.
As far as the name of the magazine is concerned, Garden Railways is (as someone said in another thread) the name Marc Horowitz was saddled with after all the other ones were taken.
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| blackburn49
1st Class Member
Copper Center, Alaska
Engineer
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| | 09/01/2008 11:36 PM |
| Posted By joe rusz on 09/01/2008 10:01 PM
I have never seen a non-garden railroad in Garden Railroad Magazine, of course. I'm a little confused here, Blackburn49. When you say "a non-garden railroad" do you meanan outdoor model railroad with no plants that's not set in a traditional garden? Or do you mean a model railroad that's not outdoors? At any rate, you are wrong on both counts. Garden Railways often does features on outdoor model railroads, most notably, Bob Treat's Snow Creek Railroad, one of the finest in the country, plus other (mostly) West Coast lines. Likewise, GR has covered, in the August 2008 issue for example, an indoor line (that's non-garden, right?), the Seath Valley Railroad built by Mike Garforth. As far as the name of the magazine is concerned, Garden Railways is (as someone said in another thread) the name Marc Horowitz was saddled with after all the other ones were taken.
Almost as highlighted in yellow except what I am talking about are layouts taking advantage of existing native plants with perhaps an occasional something else added here and there for contrast. Perhaps I missed those issues to which you refer. No reflection on GR. I have just never seen anything in outdoor railroads BUT those in garden settings. | |
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| blackburn49
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Copper Center, Alaska
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| | 09/01/2008 11:40 PM |
| And, of course, I do subscribe to the magazine anyway because it has so much to offer to those of us who are involved in large-scale model railroads. I certainly do not expect it to cater to me or my idea of what large-scale consists of. I'd rather see what others are doing.
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| East Broad Top
Moderator
Centennial, CO
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| | 09/02/2008 12:22 AM |
| ...As far as the name of the magazine is concerned, Garden Railways is (as someone said in another thread) the name Marc Horowitz was saddled with after all the other ones were taken...
I'm not sure about that, there were scant other magazines dedicated to large scale trains outdoors at the time, so there was lots of choice. I think the only other magazine in the US around that time was Don Winter's short-lived "1:22.5 Scale Digest." "Garden Railways" fit the bill simply because that's what the magazine was about--trains running in the garden. (It was a decided improvement over the "Sidestreet Banner," which was the newsletter Marc distributed prior to starting the magazine.  ) Note that the history of the hobby came from the UK, where "garden" is what we'd call a yard on this side of the pond. Marc's early influences were largely British, so it makes perfect sense.
Today, in the broadest sense of the phrase, it still fits. The hobby's evolved to the point where there's a far greater range of interests and specialization, but it's still all about trains running in the yard. Now, which percentage of those varied interests get covered in the magazine named for the concept, and to what extent is another story.
In more specific terms, I consider myself a "garden railroader," because of the emphasis I place on plants and landscaping to create a world in miniature.
Later,
K | |
Tuscarora Railroad
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| kormsen
in the middle of the westparaguayan semi desert
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| | 09/02/2008 12:53 AM |
| well, i'm content, the name of this forum is "my largescale" and not my gardenscale.
so i can have hope, that i may stay here, even if i am a declared indoor largescale hobbyist.
thirty years of hot sun and dry dust as cowpuncher was enough outdoors for my life.
oh, not to be missunderstood, i love to see photos and videos of those extended northamerican layouts under open sky or of those lovely british gardens with integrated railroad. - but for me it is the other way.
i think, we all should think of G or largescale hobby, not distinct about garden- outdoors- or indoor- hobby.
the posts in this thread, that most impressed me, are those from Les W and gdancer.
about the side theme, that turned up - plastic card modelling - when i still lived in germany (first in H0 later in G) i was allways very excited, when i went to the hobbyshop. i was in the third heaven, when i laid down my cash and got a loco or car (no cards then), i was barely touching ground on my way home - and i was in seventh heaven, when i first ran my purchase.
but.... two or three days later the purchase was just one more item. the kick was gone.
over here in the backwoods, small money, no hobbyshops, i build something, i'm slightly dissapointed, that it did not get exactly as i wanted, i run it sceptically, i fix it, i run it again.
but... be it ten, twenty or thirty years ago that i built it, it is still mine and very special. - to me.
and that is, what counts: TO ME! and if a magazine tries to tell me, how my hobby has to be, it is a magazine with one reader less.
korm | |
 construction site - keep off! | |
| Greg Vocks
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Taylorville, Illinois
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| | 09/02/2008 5:49 AM |
| Posted By cmjdisanto on 09/01/2008 8:10 PM
That's simple. Anyone and everyone that puts a train in their yard or garden for private or public enjoyment.
I think that sums it up quite succinctly.
I usually refer to my layout as a garden-railroad; the hyphen denoting that neither one is more or less important than the other. Neither aspect of my layout would impress ardent practitioners of either discipline, but it brings enjoyment to my wife and me, and to our most important visitors: my grandkids and my friends.
If I learn about aspects of either or both facets of the hobby (hobbies?) then it can call itself whatever it pleases.
Personally, I liked the moniker of the old magazine; "Outdoor Railroader." | |
Greg Vocks
Taylorville IL | |
| markoles
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Lancaster, PA
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| | 09/02/2008 7:20 AM |
| I like how we always have to define what we do. Why is that?
Where do I fit? I am neither a modeler nor a gardener. I have trains of various manufacture, none of which I have built. I have some buildings and there are plants, but it is mostly about running the trains I have when I can, outside or inside.
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Mark Oles
Millersvillanova Railroad, Lancaster, PA | |
| Les
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Florissant, Missouri
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Posts:220
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| | 09/02/2008 8:39 AM |
| Posted By blackburn49 on 09/01/2008 9:03 PM Posted By Les on 09/01/2008 6:30 PM
Great post. I definitely appreciate the sentiment expressed here. I count myself among those who does not possess the skills of some of the highly-impressive MLS members who create almost from scratch rolling stock or locomotives.  But I do enjoy re-creating historic structures and then using the model railroad to highlight them. I think of it more as artistic expression and less as a hobby. In fact, I hate it when someone sees my layout and refers to it as such. It is all in the imagination. And, yes, I would love to be able to share this endeavor with younger people. Â
But a gardener I am not. I wish you well in your own model railroad project--however you decide to approach it. I suspect it will be one fascinating piece of work. Thank you for the kind words. My RR--if I can get it going--will be an expression of my memories of a time and a place. It never occurred to me until you posted of your interest in historical buildings that that in fact is a vital part of the hobby. My own will be 'historical' in the sense of a memory--box wall construction--(no studs) log barns, unpainted, unmilled woodwork. Of course I want to operate a prototypically as feasible. But I get to determine 'feasible'. I feel I neglected to define 'Plastic Card' sufficiently and thus perhaps inadvertently gave offense to someone. Those who do RTR are just as welcome in my mind as a scratchbuilder who turns his own wheels. I just have less in common with that perspective. Les W. | | | |
| DennisB
southwestern Ontario
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Posts:61
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| | 09/02/2008 8:47 AM |
| YOU KNOW YOU'RE A GARDEN RAILROADER WHEN......
Every time your relatives & friends see a train they think of you.
Showing off your layout, even to tota; strangers,is the ultimate recreational activity.
You plan your summer vacation route around train museums and G scale train shops.
You say you're going for a drink with the guys when really tou are going to the local hobby shop.
You paint all your rolling stock thr same color so your wife won't know how many you really have.
When a new order of scale cars arrive at the local toy store, the manager has you on speed dial.
Admitting to any 2 of these descriptions classifies you as a garden railroader.
Hope this helps. Regards, Dennis. | |
www.ckgscale.com
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| Dave F
1st Class Member
Sandy, Utah
Conductor
Posts:683
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| | 09/02/2008 8:51 AM |
| Point of clarificatoin, please ..
With regards to "plants" in the garden and along the ROW..
Do weeds count ?
If so, then I am definately a garden railroader. | |
Dave Fulghum,
CEO/Gandy dancer: Lone Peak & Western Railway.
Member, Utah Garden Railway Society.
www.lonepeakandwestern.bravehost.com | |
| Les
1st Class Member
Florissant, Missouri
Foreman
Posts:220
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| | 09/02/2008 9:06 AM |
| Posted By kormsen on 09/02/2008 12:53 AM
well, i'm content, the name of this forum is "my largescale" and not my gardenscale.
so i can have hope, that i may stay here, even if i am a declared indoor largescale hobbyist.
thirty years of hot sun and dry dust as cowpuncher was enough outdoors for my life.i think, we all should think of G or largescale hobby, not distinct about garden- outdoors- or indoor- hobby.
about the side theme, that turned up - plastic card modelling over here in the backwoods, small money, no hobbyshops, i build something, i'm slightly dissapointed, that it did not get exactly as i wanted, i run it sceptically, i fix it, i run it again.
but... be it ten, twenty or thirty years ago that i built it, it is still mine and very special. - to me.
and that is, what counts: TO ME! and if a magazine tries to tell me, how my hobby has to be, it is a magazine with one reader less.
korm
After spending many years outside in the hot sun or bitter weather, I too have had quite enough Vitamin D. I bet I'm overstocked with it.
The name 'MyLargeScale' is a good all-around choice. If there were a magazine with miscellaneous articles, 'amateur articles' published at the cost of GR @ at six times a year, I'd subscribe to it. Even if it was published on recycled paper shopping bags. Or over the Web. But I understand that GR has to follow the money. And too, it has to take what it can get in the way of submissions, or do assignments. So there's another rub: very few builders can make something look as nice as a mass-produced piece, while newbies take a look at a 'consignment article' done by a pro, so they possibly don't bother to submit at all. Other reasons for choices of articles aside, I still feel GR's 'gardening' section is leaning toward overkill. And I wouldn't be surprised that's not because those articles are easier to come by. Believe it or not, my indoor RR will have a number of live plants--on shelves--because my wife 'winters over' her favorites, and they must go in front of the few windows in my trainroom-to-be. I don't mind. But they certainly won't be a focus of anything RR related.
A good deal of my unfocused dissatisfaction is due to reading the 70's era NMRA bulletins. Those who are familiar with them will understand. They had it all in the way of plans, construction articles, old trainmen's columns, lite rail. Of course, G gauge was unknown then. But 'rolling your own' was at the forefront.
Les W. | | | |
| Jerry Barnes
1st Class Member
Lexington, NE
Conductor
Posts:973
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| | 09/02/2008 9:06 AM |
| | Just a guy that likes to have fun with trains. I like them all, from railroads that are filled with lush plants to ones that use the local landscape/plants like Ron Seneks in Nevada. Don't get too uptight with definitions and be willing to let each do his own thing, isn't this for fun and relaxation? Jerry | |
Life is too short to take seriously. | |
| vsmith
1st Class Member
SoCal
Conductor
Posts:993
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| | 09/02/2008 9:12 AM |
| | I just consider myself a Large Scale model railroader, if I had the large yard I would likely be outdoors, but given my space constrictions I'm indoors, so I approach my end of the hobby differently from most others here. | |
 Kitbashing, welcome to the Dark Side | |
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