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SE18
Brakeman
Posts:58
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 | | 03/25/2008 8:40 AM |
| | I was going to eventually get the Harbor Freight drill/mill/lathe for metal combo for $529 thru their online catalog. After reading this post, I'm having second thoughts. How come consumer protection hasn't banned these or at least put them into consumer reports. I would have felt like a chump getting one of these only to find they don't work | | | |
| Semper Vaporo
1st Class Member
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
Engineer
Posts:1226
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| | 03/25/2008 10:01 AM |
| It is not that they "don't work". It is that they are far from the ideal.
If you have very little room then you have all the machines in one footprint. (I have read of people that have just the one machine in a closet and have to stand outside the door to run it. Obviously they cannot put a 4-ft long rod through the spindle to cut threads on the end of it wihout poking a hole in the closet wall!)
The disadvantages of having to tear it down and rearrange the machine between lathe and mill is a much longer process than making a few cuts... even with my lathe and separate mill the setup time for either is often longer than the "working" time. Go back a few posts here in this thread and read my tale about getting a lathe and wanting a bigger and better one. The same type of tale can be told about the 3-in-1 machines.
You might want to visit the Chaski Machinists board and look at their "3-in-1 metal working machines" forum:
http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/index.php
If you visit that board's General Discussion forum, note the threads about the mini-lathes and mini-mills. There are those that claim they are total junk and should not be sold... then there are those that turn out beautiful work with them. (If you think people at MLS are sometimes opinionated, watch out for the folk on the Machinist board... wooo-boy! Some of those folk will rip you to swarf if you don't have a million dollar machine shop and can create watch gears with a toenail clipper because you have spent 20 years as an apprentice!)
If all you have room for is a combo machine, then you would not be wrong to get one. If all you can afford is just one machine, but you "need" both a lathe and a mill, then you would not be wrong to get one. BUT, if you get one you will have to handle (put up with) the shortcomings of the machine as compared to separate machines.
I have separate machines mainly because I thought all I needed was a lathe, so that is what I bought... it was later I decided I "needed" a mill and I have enough room for both so I got a mill to add to my shop. Even though I have separate machines, I have NO (zero, nada, psyzltche!) talent to run them, so what I make is of very poor quality... acceptable for the one-of stuff I have made for ME, but I would be in serious trouble if I decided to sell the junk on a commercial basis!
Whatever you buy, study it well, practice unceasingly, slow down and learn, really learn, how to use the machine(s) you have... that means more than just spinning a hunk of brass in the chuck and slamming a bit against it. Learn about tool geometry and shape, know which types of tools should be used to cut which types of metal, at what speeds, with what lubricant, at what angle, at what depth of cut and how fast to advance the bit...amongst other things There is a whole lot more to it than "a sittin' on the back stoop whittlin' willow sticks with yer Swiss Army knife".
If you want to machine a 2 inch diameter titanium rod down to 1 inch and you have a $350,000 CNC Bridgeport you can probably do it in a few seconds in one cut, but with a mini-combo you may have to take dozens of light cuts over several hours. It can be done, it just is not as convenient.
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 C. T. McCullough
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
SA #37469
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| SE18
Brakeman
Posts:58
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| | 03/25/2008 10:48 AM |
| Thanks, Semper V. I get pretty intimidated with the high price of separate machines, but OTOH, I want something that works well enough for projects. I'm not a perfectionist and not turning out multiple things like contractors do; just putsying around.
I'll explore that link you gave. You are always so detailed in your answers. Appreciate. | | | |
| SE18
Brakeman
Posts:58
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| | 03/25/2008 10:50 AM |
| | just browsed the site some; opinions seem similar to this forum. Off-topic but they have a nice casting link on that site. I bookmarked. thanks | | | |
| Semper Vaporo
1st Class Member
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
Engineer
Posts:1226
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| | 03/25/2008 1:25 PM |
| I keep a list of the things I have made with my lathe and mill... just the things I feel were "successes". I then prorate the cost of the machine and tooling to the things I have made. Things I have made using my lathe are now costing about $45.00 each. Things I have made using the mill are still in the $110.00 range, but I have not had it very long!
Those are mighty HIGH prices for the dinky things I have made, but most of them I would not have at all if I had not made them myself.
$45.00 for a 1.5mm X 5mm stainless steel "wrist pin" is a bit steep, but the 1.5-inch brass bell I have seen for sale at nearly $100.00, so I am getting down to almost reasonable prices for some of the things.
Many of the things just were not available commercially at any price. I have made custom adapters for things that otherwise would not be usable together. And I have repaired things that were so old (or odd) that there were no repair parts available anymore. So the cost of the piece part I made might be more in the realm of what it would otherwise cost to buy a whole new sump pump or lawn mower.
The brass bells I made are pretty nice, but then there is the aluminium one... it goes "ding", but... sadly, it does so without the "ng"! I still consider it a success because I painted it gold and put in the hand of one of my dolls... she looks very much like the new school marm and needed a bell to call the kids to class.
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C. T. McCullough
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
SA #37469
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| Les
1st Class Member
Florissant, Missouri
Foreman
Posts:225
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| | 07/01/2008 7:30 PM |
| I'm coming a bit late to the party, but as a retired tool and die maker, I'd like to add my nickel's worth.
I just bought a Buffalo 7 x 10 min-lathe. They are all made by the same outfit in China: Red Bull or Raging Bull, if memory serves. (WARNING: Memory unreliable!) Anyway, the Micromark parts fit my lathe, according to their catalog. MM does order theirs with Imperial (SAE) threads in the compound, so that takes one guess out of the game. I'm in the process of taking the machine down, cleaning and oiling and removing dead creatures, and shimming slop and deburring and polishing where I feel it necessary. I will also buy MM's cam-lock tailstock. ($100). And the collet set, after I determine that it will fit. Collets are exceedingly handy and more accurate when using the 'standard' type of stock most of us obtain, and if it won't fit, put the chuck in and turn a tooling lug to the nearest collet size and go from there.
I will buy the MM mill as soon as I can get this lathe up and running and play with it a bit.
After running almost all the posts, here's my thoughts:
1. Don't buy a dual purpose machine. For the reasons given by others.
2. Recognize that these mini-machines are just that. Small and light duty. Almost all the complaints I've read and heard track back to three sources: 1) Amatuer operators. 2)Failure to clean, adjust, and set up the machine initially. This might include grinding the jaws on the chuck. 3)Trying to take too large a cut. Both the major websites that discuss these machines talk of 'upgrading' to a larger chuck. If you feel you have to do that, by all means buy a larger machine.
3. Dealing with 'inaccuracies'. They surely are there, but there are workarounds. If you want repeatablity closer than about 0.001", better look at a higher-quality machine. So much can be done with a piece of crocus cloth when one is trying for very tight tolerances. To compensate for the metric lead and compound screws, consider a long reach dial indicator, the kind with the long probe. Mount one on the base and one where it's easy to set against the compound and feed in, reading directly from the travel indicator, not from the crank dial. You will have to make brackets to do this.
4. Above all, learn to use the machine. Learn its foibles. Make some unimportant stuff for awhile, just to get a feel for how it's going. Understand that your machine will 'wear in' and check its accuracy periodically.
Les
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