| Author | Messages | |
Dave F
1st Class Member
Sandy, Utah
Conductor
Posts:684
Send Message
 | | 08/20/2008 8:31 AM |
| | Both StAubins and Wholesale trains has the Train Engineer TX/RX in the neighborhood of $130.00 to $150.00. | |
Dave Fulghum,
CEO/Gandy dancer: Lone Peak & Western Railway.
Member, Utah Garden Railway Society.
www.lonepeakandwestern.bravehost.com | |
| Idraw4u
Brakeman
Posts:34
Send Message
| | 08/20/2008 8:38 AM |
| Jimtyp,
Thk you for that HOST of information. You made some really good points.
I would very much like to be able to run more then one train at a time and controlling switches remotely is something I would really like to be able to do. I guess I am wanting the best of both worlds. I want to be able to switch a train from the other side of the layout but be able to be right down at track side to see all the action so why not switch it by hand?
The biggest advantage I am seeing to battery is the whole track power issue. Simple track power I comprehend.. reversing loops not so much. You might say they throw me for a "loop".
I think. I am going to start and just layout some main line and see where it goes. I am leaning toward DCC but the wiring is giving me pause.
Thank you again for your input.
Todd | | | |
| jimtyp
1st Class Member
Centennial, CO
Conductor
Posts:720
Send Message
| | 08/20/2008 9:39 AM |
| Todd,
Wiring for DCC is actually pretty simple, which is why I went with it. I have 2 wires that run from my DCC system to the track (145') , that is it. The reason for this is that the rail is not only the power it is a way to send commands to throw switches and run locos. However, DCC is more involved in that it requires decoders in each of your locos and switches or whatever you want to control. Switch decoders, for example, can tap into the closest rails for power and to receive commands.
There is another system called DCS, but only one vendor supports it, that I know of, MTH. But MTH makes some really nice modern diesels, which you said you prefer. so you might want to check it out. MTH makes 1:32 scale locos and rolling stock. This is actually the correct scale for standard gauge locos running on 45mm gauge track, which is what G scale track is. However, some like 1:29 scale because it's a little bigger. You said you weren't into counting rivets, so you might want to check out Aristocraft and USA Trains also.
As i said before though you might also check out battery options, the main two systems that I know of are RCS and Airwire. Airwire works like DCC only with battery and a decoder like DCC. RCS has a lot of followers and I've heard a lot of good things about it.
The Train Engineer is used by a lot of folks here also so if you go that route you should be able to get help here if needed.
Another proprietary system is MTS, from LGB and Massoth. I would only recommend it if you are going solely with LGB.
I have not gotten into live steam myself yet, but someday. | |
livin' la vida loco | |
| markoles
1st Class Member
Lancaster, PA
Conductor
Posts:812
Send Message
| | 08/20/2008 9:40 AM |
| Todd,
On my original 2 layouts, I used the power clips that came with starter sets. Not the best way to go. On my current layout, I ran jumpers from point to point, also not the best. I also used solid copper wire. Very stiff. Last summer, I rewired the layout using low voltage outdoor lighting wire. It has two insulated conductors and is ready to be put in the ground. Some folks are more proactive and use PVC piping and junction boxes to run their wiring. I am too cheap and lazy to do that. However, I ran feeders this time from a central location. My train performance has dramatically improved. This stuff was bought at Home Depot and was relatively inexpensive.
The local store vs mail order debate surfaces on from time to time here. On the one hand, being able to go into a store and see and touch the product can be very handy. On the other hand, many shops think that large scale is like O scale, in that the MSRP is what should go on the box. When I look at buying from the mail order places, they are typically 25-35% less than MSRP, and even with shipping, I am making out better. Plus, there is no added value from my local hobby shops as most are focused on O gauge and HO gauge and could care less about large scale.
Mark | |
Mark Oles
Millersvillanova Railroad, Lancaster, PA | |
| tacfoley
1st Class Member
Foreman
Posts:492
Send Message
| | 08/20/2008 10:05 AM |
| Posted By Idraw4u on 08/20/2008 8:22 AM
Thank you Dave that is the kind of info thoes of us just getting into this need.
I will give then a look and see what I can get track wise. I will also look into the the TE system and see what is available. Do you have any idea what a fair ball-park price would be for that type of system?
Like I noted - you can start getting ideas on the various costs of rolling stock and ancilliary equipment by looking in the 'Garden Rail' magazine.
tac | | | |
| Idraw4u
Brakeman
Posts:34
Send Message
| | 08/20/2008 10:08 AM |
| BINGO! That is what I am running into. Here if it is not O or N it is not overly supported that I can find anyway. So far I have been stuck going onto the WEB and there are as many options, opinions and web sites as there are stars in the sky which is more confusing than anything.
For my wiring – So if I go with DCC I don’t need to worry about reversing loops?
Also from a central location (which I anticipate should be close to the main 110v power outlet) would I then run insulated wires in PVC or not to each individual switch or accessory?
I was thinking I could run a few sets of heaver gauge wire to several pre-planned areas and then from there branch off with lower voltage wire to my switches or, lights or whatever.
I guess I may run into voltage issues, do switches and accessories (lights, etc..) use the same low voltage?
What are your thoughts on FLEX track? St. Aubin has a what seems like a great deal (under $4 per foot) on solid brass flex track but I am not familar with the brand name or the use (bending) of the flex track. | | | |
| jimtyp
1st Class Member
Centennial, CO
Conductor
Posts:720
Send Message
| | 08/20/2008 10:43 AM |
| Todd,
I don't have any reverse loops, but yes, reversing loops will require special wiring or a component called a reversing unit, or you may use special switches which have a micro controller in them so they can dynamically change polarity. You don't need to run separate wires from your central power system but some do because they want a separate power supply to run their switches. Depending on the number of switches and locos running, you may need to do this, but I don't as I only have 2 switches which have an insulated frog and no reverse loops. There are several folks here that have reverse loops and can provide help and recommendations.
Your wiring plan sounds like a good one and I've heard of others doing it that way. Most switch decoders in G can handle the higher voltages of G, up to 24v. Structure and street Lights generally do require less voltage, normally 12v to 16v. Some run their lights off a separate malibu lighting system. I use a solar malibu system and put LEDs in my structure lights.
NOTE, if you keep your minimum curves to 8' diameter or bigger you will have a lot more options for running various locos and rolling stock.
I really like the FLEX track as long as you can keep your curves relatively large, like 8' diameter or bigger. And I would recommend a rail bender - the Train Li is the ultimate dual track bender. You can bend by hand (or belly bend) but I had some problems of non-continues curves, others have hand bent and have reported no problems. Yes, check out Accucraft/AMS flextrack, I think several have it in brass, code 250 and 332 for a good price. My next layout will be nothing but flex track and switches.
Make sure you have a good roadbed, i.e. foundation, for your track, and try to keep grade to a minimum, less than 3%. Many options exist for roadbed, and some also use a raised bench layout. Do some searching in the Track forum for the various schemes. | |
livin' la vida loco | |
| Dave F
1st Class Member
Sandy, Utah
Conductor
Posts:684
Send Message
| | 08/20/2008 10:56 AM |
| Posted By Idraw4u on 08/20/2008 10:08 AM
What are your thoughts on FLEX track? St. Aubin has a what seems like a great deal (under $4 per foot) on solid brass flex track but I am not familar with the brand name or the use (bending) of the flex track.
The AML flex track that StAubins has the deal on is excellent stuff. It's Accucrafts brand of track. As stated above, it may say Flex, but it ain't N or HO.. you'll need a track bender if you want to form your own curves. | |
Dave Fulghum,
CEO/Gandy dancer: Lone Peak & Western Railway.
Member, Utah Garden Railway Society.
www.lonepeakandwestern.bravehost.com | |
| jdmitchell
1st Class Member
Deep East Texas
Brakeman
Posts:19
Send Message
| | 08/20/2008 2:31 PM |
| | Sorry to here about the LHS problem. Just north of you in Porter is Mike's Hobby Shop. I live 2 hour north east of there and between this forum, Garden Railways mag and Mike's I have load of great info. At least once a day I am on this forum reading and learning. You found the best place to get the information you need to choose what will make your RR. | |
Jim | |
| Idraw4u
Brakeman
Posts:34
Send Message
| | 08/20/2008 2:47 PM |
| Thank you for the heads up on Mike’s.
Porter is a bit far for a quick trip in an evening but if I play my cards right, the wife might just like to get away for a Saturday :o)
Do you know if they have a web site?
Thanks
Todd
| | | |
| Trains
Omaha, Nebr.
Foreman
Posts:286
Send Message
| | 08/20/2008 5:52 PM |
| Todd,
If you are going to run DCC or track power you are going to have to wire just like O, HO, N scale. If you don't want any wiring problems you will have to go with a battery car. Then you can put in reverse loops,and Wye's with no wire and
run with out throwing switches. | |
I'm in a hurry to get things done
Oh I rush and rush until life's no fun
All I really gotta do is live and die.
I'm in a hurry and don't know why! | |
| jdmitchell
1st Class Member
Deep East Texas
Brakeman
Posts:19
Send Message
| | 08/20/2008 11:10 PM |
| | www.mikes-hobbyshop.com. Exit North Park Drive off US 59 in Kingwood and go through the light just past the used truck lot and turn right on Knox Drive. I get there about once every two months and almost always walk out with something new. I'm looking forward to hearing more about your RR. | |
Jim | |
| leonpete
1st Class Member
Holstein, IA.
Foreman
Posts:181
Send Message
| | 08/21/2008 12:25 AM |
| Todd,
You should give battery power some serious thought. It would save laying all that power wire in ground. Plus , wire is not all that cheep. You can buy modern diesel power all ready wired for battery car hookup. Also, you don't need to buy expensive rail clamps. Just use the ones that come with the track. Get a couple Milwaukee 18 volt, 2.4 amp hr. batteries and a charger, install a Aristo TE receiver in a box car along with the battery, or better yet get an airwire set up and your in business. Wish I would have started that way. You can run 2 or more trains on the same track, depending on how many receivers you get. DIRTY TRACK, who cares. | |
THE B&L RAILROAD
HOLSTEIN, IA.
LEON PETERSON | |
| cmjdisanto
1st Class Member
Colonial Heights, Virginia
Foreman
Posts:196
Send Message
| | 08/21/2008 6:55 AM |
| Posted By leonpete on 08/21/2008 12:25 AM
Todd,
.... Also, you don't need to buy expensive rail clamps. Just use the ones that come with the track. .......
I'm not so sure about this one. It all comes down to personal prefferance but when you add up all the lost screws, screws that don't work with the supplied driver (more times than not this is the case), the frustration of trying to get the dang screws outta the wax and then into the holes plus the constant tightening and retightening that has to take place through the course of a year..... IMHPO and given the fact that my hands don't work nearly as well as they did even just a couple short years ago.....moving to rail clamps was worth the investment.
Using the rail clamps allows me to also keep the MTS and MRC Power G track power for others to be able to enjoy. There are many that run battery, personally I love it but since we've had visitors in the past that don't, it's nice to be able to offer options to everyone especiall now that most battery set-ups run isolated (pickups removed) or have a switch that allows the pick ups to be disconnected. Not had a problem yet | |
 MLS Member since September 2005 | |
| Ironton
1st Class Member
Northwest Indiana
Brakeman
Posts:38
Send Message
| | 08/21/2008 7:21 AM |
| Todd,
Nobody has mentioned this, so I will chime in.
First thing you should do is to take your beginner's set and set it up on the grass. Just pick a spot where you think you might like to set up your permanent layout and set it up. Use the controller that you have and leave the track set up a few days. Take the electrics inside when you are not running.
This accomplishes a couple of things for you. You get to see how much room things need so you can plan on how much you can build. You get to see how the land is regarding fills etc. And you get to see how comfortable it is to operate there (too sunny, too many roots to trip over, and other things).
Try setting up the track in a few places and see which one is best. Now you can worry about buying track and other things as you will have some idea of how much and what you will need.
Hope this helps. | |
Rich Black
SA #269 | |
| Idraw4u
Brakeman
Posts:34
Send Message
| | 08/21/2008 11:35 AM |
| Jim -Thank you for the directions and site info.
I may take a tipr up there this weekend.
Do you know if they have any operating layouts that kids might liekt o look at? I have a 9 year old nephew that might like to tag along... but only if there is something running  | | | |
| Idraw4u
Brakeman
Posts:34
Send Message
| | 08/21/2008 11:52 AM |
| Posted By cmjdisanto on 08/21/2008 6:55 AM Posted By leonpete on 08/21/2008 12:25 AM
Todd,
.... Also, you don't need to buy expensive rail clamps. Just use the ones that come with the track. ....... I'm not so sure about this one. It all comes down to personal prefferance but when you add up all the lost screws, screws that don't work with the supplied driver (more times than not this is the case), the frustration of trying to get the dang screws outta the wax and then into the holes plus the constant tightening and retightening that has to take place through the course of a year..... IMHPO and given the fact that my hands don't work nearly as well as they did even just a couple short years ago.....moving to rail clamps was worth the investment. Using the rail clamps allows me to also keep the MTS and MRC Power G track power for others to be able to enjoy. There are many that run battery, personally I love it but since we've had visitors in the past that don't, it's nice to be able to offer options to everyone especiall now that most battery set-ups run isolated (pickups removed) or have a switch that allows the pick ups to be disconnected. Not had a problem yet
I am not sure I understand this one? Are we talking about simple "joiners" vs. "rail clamps" or "good quality" rail clamps vs. "less expensive" rail clamps. Not having purchased either, I am unclear on the whole screws in wax and lost screws aspect.
Thanks for your clarification.
Todd
| | | |
| Idraw4u
Brakeman
Posts:34
Send Message
| | 08/21/2008 11:59 AM |
| Posted By leonpete on 08/21/2008 12:25 AM
Todd,
You should give battery power some serious thought. It would save laying all that power wire in ground. Plus , wire is not all that cheep. You can buy modern diesel power all ready wired for battery car hookup. Also, you don't need to buy expensive rail clamps. Just use the ones that come with the track. Get a couple Milwaukee 18 volt, 2.4 amp hr. batteries and a charger, install a Aristo TE receiver in a box car along with the battery, or better yet get an airwire set up and your in business. Wish I would have started that way. You can run 2 or more trains on the same track, depending on how many receivers you get. DIRTY TRACK, who cares.
Battery Power sure sounds simpler as far as powering the loco and not having to worry about wires and reversing loops, but I am concerned about being able to throw switches remotely and operating other features (sound, lights, etc..) Do have any thoughts on how I could/would incorporate these aspects into a battery powered layout? | | | |
| vsmith
1st Class Member
SoCal
Conductor
Posts:996
Send Message
| | 08/21/2008 12:34 PM |
| Posted By Idraw4u on 08/21/2008 11:52 AM Posted By cmjdisanto on 08/21/2008 6:55 AM Posted By leonpete on 08/21/2008 12:25 AM
Todd,
.... Also, you don't need to buy expensive rail clamps. Just use the ones that come with the track. ....... I'm not so sure about this one. It all comes down to personal prefferance but when you add up all the lost screws, screws that don't work with the supplied driver (more times than not this is the case), the frustration of trying to get the dang screws outta the wax and then into the holes plus the constant tightening and retightening that has to take place through the course of a year..... IMHPO and given the fact that my hands don't work nearly as well as they did even just a couple short years ago.....moving to rail clamps was worth the investment. Using the rail clamps allows me to also keep the MTS and MRC Power G track power for others to be able to enjoy. There are many that run battery, personally I love it but since we've had visitors in the past that don't, it's nice to be able to offer options to everyone especiall now that most battery set-ups run isolated (pickups removed) or have a switch that allows the pick ups to be disconnected. Not had a problem yet I am not sure I understand this one? Are we talking about simple "joiners" vs. "rail clamps" or "good quality" rail clamps vs. "less expensive" rail clamps. Not having purchased either, I am unclear on the whole screws in wax and lost screws aspect. Thanks for your clarification. Todd
Well, the "screws in the wax" refers to Aristocraft and USA track, whose rail joiners have a slot in them and a hole in the adjacent rail, this allows you use little stainless steel screws to tie the sections together getting muchh improved electrical connection, the SS screws ar attached under the track in the cavity of one of the plastic ties, and are held in place with wax, hence the "screws in the wax" reference.
Any refernce to the "screws in the wax" will refer to the standard stock joiners supplied by either USA or Aristo, any clamps are aftermarket items necessitating the removal of the stock joiner.
I'm not sure about "good quality" either, both Hillmanns and Split-Jaw make a fantastic product, there have been "lesser" products over the years, some like SanVals screw plate clamps are perfectly functional, they just dont look very prototypical. | |
 Kitbashing, welcome to the Dark Side | |
| jimtyp
1st Class Member
Centennial, CO
Conductor
Posts:720
Send Message
| | 08/21/2008 1:05 PM |
| Posted By Idraw4u on 08/21/2008 11:59 AM Posted By leonpete on 08/21/2008 12:25 AM
... but I am concerned about being able to throw switches remotely and operating other features (sound, lights, etc..) Do have any thoughts on how I could/would incorporate these aspects into a battery powered layout? For Sound, that will come from your loco or tender, that will be battery powered. For lights, you will probably have a separate system anyway, like a malibu system that is 12v. For switches, you would have to run a separate power system for that, or there are some that use an air system to throw switches. | |
livin' la vida loco | |
|
| | You are not authorized to post a reply. |
|
| |
ActiveForums 3.7 |
|