pimanjc
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Jim Carter - Wichita, KS
Foreman
Posts:450
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 | | 06/12/2008 8:46 PM |
| 1. Does weathering increase or decrease the value of a loco/car?
2. Do other modifications like Kadees or metal wheels significantly alter the value of the car?
3. Does having the box make a difference in value if the car is otherwise modified? JimC. | |
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blueregal
western ne.
Foreman
Posts:150
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| | 06/12/2008 9:09 PM |
| | J.C. i am not sure on the weathering of an engine or car whether or not it would increase or decrease the value.For me personally , I do not like to weather anything, at least not yet anyway, and I am not sure of the value increasing or decreasing. As far as kadees and metal wheels that would increase the value of it, and as far as having the original box, would also increase the sale price or value i believe. Watching E Bay over the last two years the above would hold true, and I would think in a private sale or other would also. The Regal | | | |
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Richard Smith
1st Class Member
Port Orford, Oregon
Foreman
Posts:446
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| | 06/12/2008 11:33 PM |
| Jim,
I think it all depends on who you're selling it to. A dyed in the wool collector wants everything as pristine and original as possible and would not in most cases want anything that's been weathered. On the other hand someone that visualizes the whole railroad as a model rather than its individual components and appreciates realism might very well pay a bit of a premium for a correctly painted, lettered and weathered model provided it's done well.
Personally unless you are collecting and later selling vintage tinplate I wouldn't worry too much about the value for resale as most of what's currently available is priced at discount anyway. There are exceptions of course but probably any items you have that you'd have to sell someday will have to be priced somewhat less than what you paid for them whether in original condition or not.
I'd just enjoy what you have the way you wish and let someone else worry about future value. Otherwise it's like buying a great new sports car and never driving it because you don't want to scratch it and lessen its future value. I happen to know someone that did just that with a Miata that he owned. In 7 or 8 years I don't think it was out of the garage more than a dozen times and then was wiped and polished before going back into the garage each time. It was never taken out on a rainy day and he even disconnected the battery each time it was parked inside. After retirement he had to move and was forced to sell the car because of higher license fees in the other state he moved to and because he could no longer afford the insurance on it and the other two vehicles he owned. He did get top dollar for it but he didn't make any profit and somebody else got to enjoy driving the beautifully kept and pristine car. | |
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East Broad Top
Moderator
Centennial, CO
Conductor
Posts:601
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| | 06/13/2008 1:11 AM |
| 1) Depends. A custom-painted locomotive can get a higher than "normal" price, but may take longer to sell because the buyer has to appreciate the customization and weathering. Rolling stock, I'm not so sure. Generally when I've sold surplus stuff, I price it to sell because it's taking up shelf space and I'm not looking to get rich. Having said that, I sold some old equipment last fall at a charity auction, and they all took in a considerable amount over their "retail" value. How much of that was the charity aspect vs. appreciating the modeling, I don't know. One thing I can say for certain, if there is a premium above and beyond for weathering, it certainly isn't enough to pay for the time and effort that goes into a good weathering job.
2) Metal wheels definitely have an impact on price, at least from an operational standpoint. I'll pay a few bucks more for a car if it's had its plastic wheels replaced with metal ones. Couplers, I'm not so sure. The buyer would have to be using the same couplers for that to be an added value.
3) Boxes? For me, it makes no difference whether the box is included or not. I'm not buying the box, and it will very likely go to the nearest landfill as soon as the car gets home anyway. Yes, collectors like boxes, but beyond LGB, I don't see a whole lot of collector frenzy in this scale. It may add a few dollars, but that's it, really.
On the whole, though, I've got the same mindset as Richard. I don't buy my trains as an investment. The return I get on my dollar is not financial. When I decide it's time to part with a piece of equipment, I will have gotten my enjoyment out of it, and price it to make it attractive for someone else to appreciate it. I don't weather my stuff to make it more or less attractive down the road, I do it because it makes the model more appealing to my eyes.
Later,
K | |
Tuscarora Railroad
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Torby
1st Class Member
North Chicago 'burbs.
Engineer
Posts:1664
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| | 06/13/2008 6:41 AM |
| | I don't think there's enough collector value in plastic trains to worry about it either way. | |
 "If Christianity was something we were making up, of course we could make it easier. But it is not. We cannot compete, in simplicity with people who are inventing religions. How could we? We are dealing with Fact. Of course anyone can be simple if he has no facts to bother about."-- C. S. Lewis | |
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Dougald
Moderator
Foreman
Posts:427
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| | 06/13/2008 6:48 AM |
| I would agree with Richard and Kevin on this one.
I would also add that there is a large enough group of Kadee coupler users that a critical mass has likely been achieved among those folks who actually want to run there trains. On fairly common equipment, I would guess (from seeing stuff sold locally) that Kadees add about $5-7 per car to the price. But that is still generally less than the cost of buying a pair of Kadees and does not count the small amount of work to install.
Keep in mind what Richard said about collectors - they want their stuff unmodified even to the point of original couplers. But collectors really are only looking for certain LGB pieces.
In terms of locos, in the sales I have seen locally, private road name paint jobs downgrade the value while good weathering seems to give a premium. But all of this is skewed by model accuracy and roadname ... U-25s were not run in Canada and are hard to sell here ... UP may command a premium in the USA but is hard to sell here ... slap on CN or CP and it will sell but the price may need discounting because the model is inaccurate ... a well detailed accurate CN or CP loco properly painted to match the details will command a huge premium. But that premium is unlikely to cover the cost and effort to customize the loco in the first place.
Regards ... Doug | |
Doug Matheson
Manotick Ontario
SA #122 | |
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K27_463
1st Class Member
Brakeman
Posts:64
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| | 06/13/2008 7:31 AM |
| I do a lot of weathering , both for myself and others. In general, a weathered loco will limit the universe of potential buyers to a smaller fraction , maybe 1/3rdor 1/2 of overall buyers, but within that buyers group, the price paid will be at least equal to a "normal " price, and maybe more. I have found the same with rolling stock. If it is done well, it does not detract, except to eliminate buyers who do not like, or do not appreciate the added realism. Overall, the same rules for things like Kadee , wheels etc, also apply to radio control installations. If done well, and the buyer uses Radio control, then the modification does not help or hinder the sale.
Jonathan/EMw | | | |
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Jerry Barnes
1st Class Member
Lexington, NE
Conductor
Posts:975
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| | 06/13/2008 9:43 AM |
| I don't care. I do what I want to my stuff to please me. I like getting stuff with metal wheels and Kadees, since that's what I use. Care less about boxes also, who needs to take up space with them? And storing them in the boxes is a pain, when you want to run them. I keep mine in plastic tubs and carry out 5-6 at a time that way, and store them in them also, out in my shed. I don't have that much stuff, despite being in this for 15 years, like to be able to run things, not much sense in having something you've never run, or have not run for a year.
Jerry | |
Life is too short to take seriously. | |
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Ole Toad Frog
1st Class Member
Roasharon, Tx.
Foreman
Posts:258
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| | 09/01/2008 3:42 AM |
| 1. Does weathering increase or decrease the value of a loco/car? I think it inhances the value to a member like me, real thing is not shinny up close or away
2. Do other modifications like Kadees or metal wheels significantly alter the value of the car? Kadees, yes, but where they are mounted and which car is the way I look at it : Metal wheels are a +
3. Does having the box make a difference in value if the car is otherwise modified? No box needed here, just pack with USP bubble wrap and off you go to the PO or UPS.
Toad | |
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Tom Daly
1st Class Member
North Quincy, MA
Brakeman
Posts:75
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| | 09/01/2008 12:27 PM |
| All,
I think the questions can be answered two ways.
Who is the target of the question?
First of all, I consider myself a Model Railroader rather than a collector.
I have been in the hobby for 50+ years.
Weathering, Kadees and boxes (and modifications) DO enhance the "value" to ME.
It's not so much a financial value, but a pride value.
I am the only one who must be pleased with my painting, weathering and modifications of my equipment.
I take pride in my ability to perform that and I certainly do it to all my stuff.
Currently, I have no plans for selling off my equipment so I do not care what the next owner thinks about the state of change/weathering.
Quite frankly, I will probably have left the planet when there is a "new" owner of my equipment.
In that case, my kids will have to deal with the next owner and THAT persons likes/dislikes.
I hope he or she has as much fun and enjoyment as I have had.
Tom
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Thomas W. Daly, Sr.
Foreman of Locomotives
Quincy Northern Railroad, Steamship & Navigation Co.
SA# 261
New Hampshire Garden Railway Society
Milwaukee Road Historical Association | |
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cmjdisanto
1st Class Member
Colonial Heights, Virginia
Foreman
Posts:196
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| | 09/03/2008 8:38 PM |
| Considering that most of the stuff you see in the classifieds sells for a fraction (large or small) of what it originally sold for I'd have to say no.
IMHO This is not a hobby where you'd expect any type of appreciation in value. Maybe an appreciation in the emotional sense but not much past that. Yet I'm sure that you'll be able to find someone out there that will pay extra for those things but the value of the item lies in what the person you sell things to is willing to pay.
Kinda like the old thought process of buying a brand new car. You drive it off the lot and it depreciates by 25%. | |
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wchasr
1st Class Member
Western NY
Foreman
Posts:383
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| | 09/04/2008 6:24 AM |
| Hmm Weathering or whethering? LOL! so far I've honeslty been a large scale collector. I've purchased and collected many things for an eventual garden pike that so far has a little vision but it is still hazy. Once I do have something running I may divest some of my surplus stuff and I do not expect top dollar but neither will I give it away. Well unless I'm really giving it away.
Over the last 15 years of buying what I like I've got a LOT of trains. I've got even more projects lined up some started and some merely boxes of bits assembled for a someday project. I too will not worry too much about what the value is and so far the research and purchasing has served me to a point and once I get to run them it will serve my needs even better.
So far however Metal wheels have influenced my willing ness to pay more. orginal boxes only in terms of angst over shipping once they are in my possesion it's been convenient to store them in boxes but once I start running they will likely never see styrofoam & cardboard again. | | | |
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Ole Toad Frog
1st Class Member
Roasharon, Tx.
Foreman
Posts:258
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| | 09/04/2008 6:33 AM |
| Posted By wchasr on 09/04/2008 6:24 AM
Hmm Weathering or whethering? LOL! so far I've honeslty been a large scale collector. I've purchased and collected many things for an eventual garden pike that so far has a little vision but it is still hazy. Once I do have something running I may divest some of my surplus stuff and I do not expect top dollar but neither will I give it away. Well unless I'm really giving it away.
Over the last 15 years of buying what I like I've got a LOT of trains. I've got even more projects lined up some started and some merely boxes of bits assembled for a someday project. I too will not worry too much about what the value is and so far the research and purchasing has served me to a point and once I get to run them it will serve my needs even better.
So far however Metal wheels have influenced my willing ness to pay more. orginal boxes only in terms of angst over shipping once they are in my possesion it's been convenient to store them in boxes but once I start running they will likely never see styrofoam & cardboard again.
I am very needy Trust me I am | |
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John J
Moderator
Conductor
Posts:766
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| | 09/04/2008 8:39 PM |
| The Questions are in the wrong order for me. Steel Wheels would make me pay more for a car. Wheathering is second. Orginal box in not important. If it is a car I want I would give what you paid for it and a little more | |
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Enginear
Brakeman
Posts:49
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| | 09/05/2008 8:10 AM |
| Weathering is a double edge sword. I always admire quality weathering, yet find myself prefering equipment untouched? I think everyone enjoys a different level of weathering. The value seems not to change for the effort, but some stay clear of it.
Steel wheels and KD add to the value for me, because thats what I prefer. Yet, when I try to sell something, the buyers all run something different. Some are happy with plastic wheels (few). Some run hook and loop, and won't touch a car that has been modified.
Boxes are important. Every car that I have without a box, I find myself apologizing for when I show it? But, I buy equipment to run not to collect. A box, should mean nothing. Steel wheels and KDs should add to the value. Quality (Lighter) weathering that matches my taste, adds. Joe | | | |
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Mik
Indiana, Pa
Foreman
Posts:344
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| | 09/08/2008 9:23 PM |
| My gram says, "Something is worth exactly what two idiots (buyer and seller) agree it's worth. No more, no less." .... Hard to argue with that.
I tend to buy inexpensive stuff and modify (mangle?) it to suit myself... If the collectors AND the scale operators AND the fussbudgets ALL turn their noses up at it, THEN maybe I can afford it, lol | |
Mik
Unsupervised children will be given espresso and a free puppy | |
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Madstang
1st Class Member
Bellevue, NE
Foreman
Posts:202
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| | 09/15/2008 11:41 AM |
| I have heard that with LGB if you weather it it takes away from the value. Some cars I don't touch..many I weather. I believe in weathering my stuff....I don't like the shinny toy look....as for when I die, it will be up the kids to do what ever with. Weathering is subjective..some people like what people do...others may not. I have pruchased, in the past things that were weathered..but since I am heavily into doing it I have not bought anything weathered for a long time. Beauty is in the eye of the behiolder. If it feels good "Do it!" Bubba | |
Bubba'sPlatte River RRBellevue, NE | |
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