toddalin
Foreman
Posts:354
Send Message
 | | 05/06/2008 4:24 PM |
| Posted By cabforward on 05/06/2008 3:27 PM
I am one of the 15 engeneers in the wolds longest trains.
From talking to rick and being at the layout to run the train
A) There is NO way that you could run the train under track power NO mader how many blocks there are.
B) Tod If you could use blocks how would it be possible to know whick block one of the 44 engines are in to spead it up or slow it down.
C)And the whole armchair thing that the layout is not in the condition for track power that is not true the layout could be track powered it has rail clamps concret road bed
D)Tod it takes between halfhour and 45 minutes to get around the layout
E)Mark it is 75 sets of five car articulated that make a grand total of 395 cars the articulateds let us have one fith the number of coupalers for slack as well as the fact that the middle three cars share one truck
F)The planning of this thing is through the roof
G)Greg it is possible for that kind of range you hook the antina to the track
H) Mark if you were to use a single transmitter it would be 7 amps times 44 equals 308 amps
I)Greg DCC would not work eather the layout covers almost three acres!
J)Greg and others the info on the layout is
3800 feet of track overall
* 1254 linear feet of track per main and it is a double track main.
* 91 feet of bridges
* 95 feet of trestles
* 78 feet of tunnels
* 1 city with a streetcar that runs through it separately from the mainline
* several smaller towns and ranches
* a pond with a capacity of 12,000 gallons which spills over into a river flowing to a dammed reservoir.
The one proble are grades we decend 7 feet 6 inches from we exit the train barn to the bottom of the hill in about 800 feet of track
K) The main reason that we are using the big boys are that USA donated them
L) the other 44 engines are all brand new USA GP-30's with locolink and 1 volt batterys
M) for more info and pictures of the Dynamite Rio verde and eastern go to www.ricktherailroadguy.com click on RAILROADS and then 3/4 of the page you will see the dynamite rio verde and eastern.
IF YOU GUYS HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OR IDEAS IE DCC, ONE CONTROLER ETC.
Rick told me to post his phone number he would be more then happy to talk the train or anything about trains
the number is
602-501-7553
If there are any questions feel free to call again the number is
602-501-7553
If the 44 engines are all USA GP-30s and each consist pulls roughly the same number of railcars, just set all block voltages the same and that should be plenty close for government work. Each "consist" should run about the same so I really don't see that as a problem.
Why would you need to speed up/slow down some relative to the others? Just select a voltage where things could run at a reasonable pace and not jerk the couplers off on the start-up (e.g., 10 volts). No one says things need to speed up/slow down or even run for long just to set a record.
(We would have loved to attend and help out and were were out on Scottsdale Road past Dynamite Road on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, but were informed that this was a "closed to the public" event.) | | | |
|
Spule 4
Nashvegas, TN
Foreman
Posts:441
Send Message
| | 05/06/2008 5:35 PM |
|
(We would have loved to attend and help out and were were out on Scottsdale Road past Dynamite Road on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, but were informed that this was a "closed to the public" event.)
Weren't the previous records done at public exhibits in Europe? | |
Garrett
"She'd been in Belgium, she told me...Studying the pyramids. It took her years to find out that there were no pyramids in Belgium." | |
|
cabforward
Roseville Calif
Foreman
Posts:102
Send Message
| | 05/06/2008 5:49 PM |
| | It was a closed event but all you had to do was call rick | | | |
|
NTCGRR
1st Class Member
Nebraska City NE
Conductor
Posts:693
Send Message
| | 05/06/2008 6:17 PM |
| Mark O.
great loco but no fun,,, its like a bull dozer,, very cool to watch, powerful etc. but try sitting in one and running it for awhile. You are tired and sore after that. | |
 Marty Cozad
North Table Creek GRR
Nebraska City, NE
Is it "REAL" or just 1:29 th | |
|
cabforward
Roseville Calif
Foreman
Posts:102
Send Message
| | 05/06/2008 6:44 PM |
| Greg
how would you plan to run over 20 pairs of locos
| | | |
|
Greg Elmassian
1st Class Member
Carlsbad (San Diego), CA
Conductor
Posts:974
Send Message
| | 05/06/2008 7:42 PM |
| I proposed 2 solutions. Which do you want to talk about, a cost effective, but sort of "one time" setup, or a more elegant solution that will cost more but add operating potential to this layout?
By the way, who are you? What are your real names? Your bio is empty.
Regards, Greg | |
Be sure to visit my site, lots of technical tips and modifications, and you can search for topics and key words.
Click here for Greg's web site | |
|
cabforward
Roseville Calif
Foreman
Posts:102
Send Message
| | 05/06/2008 8:25 PM |
| Greg
Please explain your two solutions
Thanks Matt
My name is Matthew Abreu And I live in Roseville Calif.
I have flown down to the run the last two weekends
| | | |
|
markoles
1st Class Member
Lancaster, PA
Conductor
Posts:713
Send Message
| | 05/07/2008 7:06 AM |
| Matt,
Thanks for taking time to comment on the comments.
395 cars divided by 44 locomotives is 8.9 cars per engine. (but 75 x 5 = 375) Why so much power? Seems like that'd put one pair of GP-30s every 15 or so cars (or between every third set of doublestacks). How often do you see that in the real world?
Didn't we see Jens Bangs layout running with a 100+ car freight behind a single big boy? From that perspective, wouldn't 3 Big Boys do the trick? With maybe one GP-30 pair in there.
We all have different experiences with the trains, but 8-9 cars would be a short train, for even the GP30. Maybe there is too much power in the train, and reducing power would result in less potential of pushing cars off, and result in fewer crew member requirements.
I agree with Greg's track powered solutions. Either one would remove some of the human element that seems to be plauging this project.
Marty- nice! | |
Mark Oles
Millersvillanova Railroad, Lancaster, PA | |
|
cabforward
Roseville Calif
Foreman
Posts:102
Send Message
| | 05/07/2008 8:13 AM |
| Mark
I am going to admit that we went a little oveoard on the number of loco's.
Your right it is 375 cars multiplication eror on my part
Yes Jens Bangs pulled 100+ cars but since I did my first post the big boys were just for looks/helpers BUT we are no longer going to run them do to the fact that the USA prototype loco that we are running droped its rods on the engeneer side and the other two cant keep there pilots on the track.
It is now only gp30's
matt | | | |
|
cabforward
Roseville Calif
Foreman
Posts:102
Send Message
| | 05/07/2008 8:17 AM |
| Guys
We are planning to run the train today at 2 PM
You can watch it online at www.ricktherailroadguy.com clik on watch it live
We are looking for operators if you are in the scotsdale AZ area
call rick at
602-501-7553
If you want to be part of garden RR history
Matt | | | |
|
markoles
1st Class Member
Lancaster, PA
Conductor
Posts:713
Send Message
| | 05/07/2008 9:21 AM |
| | Good luck, Matt, Rick and all the rest! | |
Mark Oles
Millersvillanova Railroad, Lancaster, PA | |
|
Art
1st Class Member
Brakeman
Posts:87
Send Message
| | 05/07/2008 10:27 AM |
| Good luck on the run. I cannot see the need for so much power but that is up to you. I would just use distributed power and let it go. I would imagine 10 locos would do the job. I mean I pull 30 plus with 1 on a good day with 8' diameter turns, not all body couplers, and multiple turns. I would use AirWire as far as I can tell, but then again I really don't know what in the hell I'm talking about. It is a disease I caught from an SD70..... Have fun.
Art | | | |
|
cabforward
Roseville Calif
Foreman
Posts:102
Send Message
| | 05/07/2008 11:19 AM |
| Thanks Art
We need all the luck that we can get.
You are probably right on the fact that we have so many locos
The link to the layout is
http://www.ricktherailroadguy.com/galleries/dynamiterioverde.html
Matt | | | |
|
Greg Elmassian
1st Class Member
Carlsbad (San Diego), CA
Conductor
Posts:974
Send Message
| | 05/07/2008 11:37 AM |
| I'll talk about the DCC solution first. Since this is someone's layout, it might be helpful to invest some money in making the layout more fun to run in other cases.
I just came back from the convention at Phoenix, and saw Dennis Sirrine's layout. He was going to go battery, and during the tour he ate all the batteries running long trains and lighted cars.
If it were me, I would run track power DCC.
The layout we are talking about here could handle this. I would buy 10 amp or greater boosters, and create several blocks that would not exceed the booster rating. If money was no object, there are 25 amp DCC boosters. I would think that the mainline could be "cut" into 4-6 sections with a booster each.
You then run a interconnection wire between them to a single command station. Since most of these systems use RS485 for communication on the "command bus", you have no problem with the wire length.
Now you have a DCC system that can control EVERY locomotive on the main line from a single point. You use DCC consisting to control ALL the locomotives with a single consist address. You can speed match all the locomotives to EXACTLY the same speeds so you could mix any locomotive types. This is all standard DCC stuff.
Now to have more fun, you want wireless control. So you use the NCE wireless throttles. You can connect up to 32 wireless "base stations". The new cabs have a range of over 50 feet easily. With this range and 32 base stations, you would have wireless control everwhere. Again, the wiring between the base stations is based on RS485, so wire length is not an issue. (A singel RS485 run can be around 1,000 foot).
So, a simple, easy to set up, off the shelf solution that gives you wireless independent control of locomotives and the ability to combine ALL the locomotives into a single consist.
Easy.
Regards, Greg | |
Be sure to visit my site, lots of technical tips and modifications, and you can search for topics and key words.
Click here for Greg's web site | |
|
cabforward
Roseville Calif
Foreman
Posts:102
Send Message
| | 05/07/2008 11:42 AM |
| Greg
Thank you for your ideas and comments .
If we were going to do it over again we might take that into concideration.
Do to the fact that all of the loco have allready been converted to locolink and 18volt batteries.
Matt | | | |
|
cabforward
Roseville Calif
Foreman
Posts:102
Send Message
| | 05/07/2008 11:48 AM |
| guys
I pill post a update on the run as soon as it is over
Matt | | | |
|
Greg Elmassian
1st Class Member
Carlsbad (San Diego), CA
Conductor
Posts:974
Send Message
| | 05/07/2008 11:52 AM |
| Ouch... no offense to Locolinc, but no way does it have the range to control all the locos from one point. How many different cabs does it take to drive the train? It's got to be around 4 or more, although maybe you can have 3 groups of locos... I would guess that 5 groups of locos would be the sweet spot in terms of distributing power.
One thing not mentioned is minimum curve radius (but I'm sure it is broad), and max grades and how many. Just curious.
Good Luck!
p.s. I guess the questions and suggestions about "how to do it" were merely an exercise? You state that you have Locolinc and imply you won't change. I won't waste time with other solutions, and Locolinc is not a solution I would have picked for this. | |
Be sure to visit my site, lots of technical tips and modifications, and you can search for topics and key words.
Click here for Greg's web site | |
|
calenelson
Non-Paying Member
Foreman
Posts:372
Send Message
| | 05/07/2008 12:15 PM |
| Good Looking Live Feed, hope to see some movement soon!
Battery Power was first to ever run LS Train at North Pole (with RCS)...and now this for world record...cool!
cale | |
‘Course he isn’t safe. But he’s good. He’s the King I tell you. | |
|
wchasr
1st Class Member
Western NY
Foreman
Posts:350
Send Message
| | 05/07/2008 12:23 PM |
| | OOOOOH! there is sound! | | | |
|
calenelson
Non-Paying Member
Foreman
Posts:372
Send Message
| | 05/07/2008 12:26 PM |
| | yeah, he just said call him to check in...I'm curious when 2 pm is....here or there...if so I got some time to wait! | |
‘Course he isn’t safe. But he’s good. He’s the King I tell you. | |
|