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Subject: Bar Oil for Steam Oil?
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HMeinholdUser is Offline

Fremont,CA
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10/14/2008 10:31 PM  
Just to add another twist:
 
Roundhouse ("Technical") recommends "Compounded bearing oil 220". This does not sound like having animal fat as an ingredient....
 
BTW, I checked out their WEB site, as I am running low on Ronson valves. 
Regards

Henner
Donkey Doctor East Devils Hill Lumber Co.
Steve S.User is Offline
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10/15/2008 7:11 AM  
Here is what is said at the Roundhouse site:  (All credit given to Roundhouse.com for this information)
 
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Steam Oil

'Steam oil', to use it's common name, comes in many forms and weights and often under some other name. There seems to be a commonly held belief on this subject, that 'thicker is better', but this is just one more 'old wives tale'. Also, to say that a certain viscosity of oil is correct for all, without any other qualification (eg. at certain steam pressures, temperatures or pipe size etc) is a little misleading. It may work fine in one design of engine, but be less suitable for another. By choosing the correct weight and composition of oil, you can obtain a more efficient lubrication.
There are a number of things to be taken into consideration when deciding which oil to use such as, temperature of steam, size of piping, point of entry into stsyem, type of lubricator etc. etc.

The current oil supplied by Roundhouse is, to use it's correct title, 'Compounded Bearing Oil 220' (220 being the weight or viscosity) and was chosen after consultation with the oil's manufacturer and discussion as to its precise application and working environment. The change of oil was brought about a few years after Roundhouse adopted internal gas firing and a small number of engines were experiencing blocked super heater pipes after prolonged use. The blockages were caused by carbonised oil, though this had never been a problem with the earlier externally fired models. The key points that dictated what oil to use were as follows.

1/ Working on a (relatively) low steam pressure of 40psi.
2/ Displacement type lubricator positioned in cab, so 'wet steam' pickup.
3/ Long pipe run (again, relatively) between lubricator and cylinders.
4/ Small diameter of piping.
5/ High degree of superheating between lubricator and cylinder as superheater heated directly by gas burner and will often be glowing red during operation.

What was needed in this case was an oil that would be picked up and carried by the (relatively) low pressure wet steam, then travel through all the small diameter piping, through the high temperature of the superheater (without being carbonised), and arrive in the correct proportion in the cylinders where it cools again before doing its job.
All of this pointed to a medium weight oil so that it would pick up and pass quickly along the narrow pipes and one with a low 'solids' content so that carbonisation in the superheater was kept to a minimum. The 'solids' reffered to, are additives such as tallow and other fats, which are used as they are a good lubricator in wet conditions.
To deliver the correct amount of 220 weight oil, the feed hole in the lubricator had to be reduced in size as the now thinner oil picked up and flowed far more freely.

We offer the above case both to illustrate the fact that no one oil is 100% suitable for all needs, and to explain why the current Roundhouse oil is so different from it's predecessor.
Please note that using the current 220 oil in an older Roundhouse loco that was originally supplied with the thicker oil will not cause any problems other than an oily engine. Using thicker oil in the current models should not be a problem as far as lubrication is concerned (slightly less getting to the cylinders), but may lead to long term carbonisation in the superheater.

When choosing an oil, you should look at the particular requirements of the model in question. A low pressure oscilating cylindered loco with displacement lubricator will need quite a different type to say a coal fired engine running at 90 psi with oil fed by pump directly to the cylinders. Also, if you are playing about with or changing between different weights of oil, a lubricator with adjustable feed rate is desirable as the this can vary considerably.
 
 

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So, the Roundhouse oil does contain tallow and other fats. I use the Roundhouse oil in all my engines with excellent results. I too find it hard to understand why people will spend thousands of dollars on engines and then cut corners on steam oil.
HMeinholdUser is Offline

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10/15/2008 9:03 AM  
My bad. I should have read it more thoroughly. But at least it shows, that  other types of oil are out there which are suitable for our purposes..
Regards
 

Henner
Donkey Doctor East Devils Hill Lumber Co.
NTCGRRUser is Offline
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10/17/2008 7:26 PM  
Well You know, I need a livesteamer like I need a hole in my head.
to much to learn, may get rid of it.

Marty Cozad
North Table Creek GRR
Nebraska City, NE

Is it "REAL" or just 1:29 th

Semper VaporoUser is Online
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Cedar Rapids, Iowa
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10/17/2008 7:37 PM  
HEY! we all have 7 already, what's one more amongst friends?

C. T. McCullough
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
Le 18:22
CharlesUser is Offline
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10/18/2008 7:05 AM  
Marty
What is so hard about live steam:
 
Add-
Oil
Water
Fuel
 
Fire it up  and run on the track


Happy Trails on the Rails
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Charles
SA #614

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NTCGRRUser is Offline
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10/18/2008 7:21 PM  
getting the fuel with out paying high shipping rates. Folks complain about batteries, ha!!!
I have 4 qts of AC oil, one gal of"distilled" water, no fuel.
 
Charles, thats like me saying, whats so hard about having a large RR. if you don't have the room simply go buy a bigger property.
 
Or theres something deep inside of me saying,, NO I DON'T WANT TO BE ONE OF THEM, NO , SAVE ME!!!!!!

Marty Cozad
North Table Creek GRR
Nebraska City, NE

Is it "REAL" or just 1:29 th

Semper VaporoUser is Online
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10/18/2008 7:46 PM  
Posted By NTCGRR on 10/18/2008 7:21 PM
getting the fuel with out paying high shipping rates. Folks complain about batteries, ha!!!
I have 4 qts of AC oil, one gal of"distilled" water, no fuel.
 
Charles, thats like me saying, whats so hard about having a large RR. if you don't have the room simply go buy a bigger property.
 
Or theres something deep inside of me saying,, NO I DON'T WANT TO BE ONE OF THEM, NO , SAVE ME!!!!!!


But think how glorious it will be to come out from the dark side and unto the Light!
 
Fuel (butane, I assume you mean) can be purchased from an Asian market. Maybe one or three in that fair to middlin' burg just to your North.

C. T. McCullough
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
Le 18:22
CharlesUser is Offline
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10/18/2008 8:18 PM  
Marty
Your inner self is probably telling that you need a "real" steam engine to go with your "real" big layout.  If there is a will then there is a way to make it happen.


Happy Trails on the Rails
Offering services to enhance your steam locomotive
Charles
SA #614

http://cebednarik.googlepages.com/home
Jerry BarnesUser is Offline
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10/18/2008 9:46 PM  
Gee Marty, if you would have ordered the gas from one of the sources I sent you awhile back, you'd have it by now! Jerry

Life is too short to take seriously.
Semper VaporoUser is Online
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10/18/2008 9:48 PM  
Posted By Charles on 10/18/2008 8:18 PM
Marty
Your inner self is probably telling that you need a "real" steam engine to go with your "real" big layout.  If there is a will then there is a way to make it happen.


No, no, no... the old adage is:
 
Where there is a will, there are relatives in the hospital waiting room.

C. T. McCullough
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
Le 18:22
livesteam5629User is Offline
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Elkton, MD
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10/19/2008 7:35 AM  
Marty,
Find a sporting goods/camping store. Omaha is full of them and I am sure one is in Nebraska City. The usually sell the large butane/propane camp stove fuel which most of us Live Steamers use. Try it, You will like it!
N

Noel Crawford
Greg ElmassianUser is Offline
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10/19/2008 6:16 PM  
Marty, what live steamer do you have? It's ok if it's not an Aristo! 

Regards, Greg


Be sure to visit my site, lots of technical tips and modifications, and you can search for topics and key words.
Click here for Greg's web site
aceinsppUser is Offline
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10/19/2008 6:18 PM  
Yes just tell us instead of beating around the bush  Later RJD


RJD Chief Engr D & S RR
KovacjrUser is Offline
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Lakewood NJ
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10/20/2008 7:58 AM  
Marty try these places:
 
 
Just call and ask for the butane stove gas Its 1.29 a can here. and sold in a 4 pack or case of 24


Jason Kovac
Lakewood, NJ
Jerry BarnesUser is Offline
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10/20/2008 8:15 AM  
Neat search Jason! This should get him going.

Life is too short to take seriously.
aceinsppUser is Offline
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10/20/2008 12:46 PM  
Maybe he is afraid he will burn his fingers. Guess thats why he uses batteries.  Later RJD


RJD Chief Engr D & S RR
NTCGRRUser is Offline
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Nebraska City NE
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10/21/2008 4:21 PM  
Those are food places,,,  I called one place in believe and it was some private number.

Marty Cozad
North Table Creek GRR
Nebraska City, NE

Is it "REAL" or just 1:29 th

bvdrrUser is Offline
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10/21/2008 8:04 PM  
Hey Marty,the Asian markets sell butane for the woks the asians cook with. Thats where I bought mine and it is usually very in expensive.
                                                         Fred
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10/21/2008 8:17 PM  
Fred
where have you been all this time. I'm tring to find it where I can pick it up VS ship it. I called Dan Moore but have not heard back. somewhere in Omaha or Lincoln should sale the dang stuff.

Marty Cozad
North Table Creek GRR
Nebraska City, NE

Is it "REAL" or just 1:29 th

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