railgeek
1st Class Member
Foreman
Posts:112
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 | | 10/03/2008 12:52 AM |
| | Anschuz is a jerk. He ran the D&RGW into the ground and almost eliminated the ski train. | | | |
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roadranger
Colorado Springs, CO
Passenger
Posts:5
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| | 10/23/2008 11:01 AM |
| As a former shop employee of the GCR, still in contact with current employees, here's my take on the situation;
It was the former owner, Max Bigert, who desired a steam operation for his railroad. He even sunk $1.2 million into rebuilding the 4960 into their large road locomotive.
However, the writing was on the wall when the Marketing Dept. realized in the late 1990's that the major draw for a majority of ridership was NOT the steam locomotives.
That is when the steam program was downsized from year round to summers only, and diesels were used for economy of service 3/4's of the year.
The railroad concentrated on ALCO FPA-4 diesels for service, as they were cheap to acquire from VIA, they were a classic 'covered wagon' profile, and fairly economical to run.
Now Xanterra owns the railroad. It claims to be a "Green" Corporation and does NOT want to deal with the environmental problems of fuel oil, lube oil, and boiler water treatments.
Did you know the Nat'l. Park Service does not provide boiler water to the RR up at the Canyon itself, and that the RR has to bring it's own boiler water up in tank cars ?
WAY too many operational/environmental problems with steam for the new owners to handle.
Xanterra has also found that the ALCO engine parts are getting harder to source out, the engines are rated only 1800 horsepower, and have no HEP- requiring the use of a "power car" with it's own maintenance/fueling problems. Hence they are moving to the EMD F40PH's rated at 3000 hp (fewer engines needed per train) with built in HEP. EMD parts are easily obtained, and I understand Xanterra will contract out to outside shops for heavy repairs. No need for mechanics in their shop, now.
Interestingly enough, it's only the "1st class" cars that require HEP power. The older "2nd Class" Harriman coaches are still steam heated and require a steam generator boiler (in the power car) for winter heating.
I understand that Xanterra wants to "stuff and mount" on the property their 2 perfectly sound operational steam locomotives, the 4960 and the 29.
It is unfortunate these engines are not sold off as the #18 was (to San Luis and Rio Grande) to continue operating for the "appreciative" general public.
Business is business, I guess.... | |
Jim Bruneau SA 4030
Argyle Baldwin 0-4-2 45mm Gaz
RH SRRL 2-6-2 45mm Gaz
LE 2-6-0 7.5in Coal
Fairmont MT-19 4'8.5" Gasoline | |
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vsmith
1st Class Member
SoCal
Engineer
Posts:1193
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| | 10/23/2008 11:52 AM |
| "Enviromental concerns" my left foot! I knew it was bottom line issues.
"Stuff n mount" to me is a sour grapes attitude. We wont run them, but we wont let anyone else run them either so you can't pollute the air by running them on your RR. Shame, but lets see if they start running short of cash for new engines, I'm sure they could very well end up on the auction block anyways. | |
 Kitbashing, welcome to the Dark Side | |
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Charles
1st Class Member
Conductor
Posts:636
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| | 10/23/2008 4:13 PM |
| | Glad we made the run with the steam engines because we do not plan to do it again with diesel. In fact if we revisit the Canyon it would be by car thus the new owners will be losing customer base. | |
Happy Trails on the Rails
Offering services to enhance your steam locomotive
Charles
SA #614
http://cebednarik.googlepages.com/home | |
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coolhand
1st Class Member
St. George, Utah
Brakeman
Posts:27
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| | 11/07/2008 9:05 PM |
| Tried to post htis earlier but was not able to log on. Made the trip Oct. 11 with the diesel and !st class cars. The ride was enjoyable. It was to cool to open the windows and smell the smoke anyhow.The last steam run was labor day.
Talked with ticket agent and gift shop employee. The 1st said that the steamers are gone forever and that Anschuts was a big enviromentilist.
The 2nd said that she believed EPA had something to due with it. We better pray that xanterra dosn't buy any more tourist steam rail roads.
The Grand Canyon Rail Road news had an article about a big rail raod museum planned for Williams. | |
Gary L. Luke
CEO and Operations
Lukeville and Utah Southern Rail Road
SA# 1035 | |
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coolhand
1st Class Member
St. George, Utah
Brakeman
Posts:27
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| | 11/07/2008 9:07 PM |
| | I forgot 4960 is already sitting next to thr station on a siding. | |
Gary L. Luke
CEO and Operations
Lukeville and Utah Southern Rail Road
SA# 1035 | |
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lvst4evr
Brakeman
Posts:31
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| | 11/08/2008 8:51 AM |
| | Charles; when we were there last march we were told that the park was probably going to close down the vehicle admission to the park. Maybe the tour buses, only, would be let in? Very bad mistake going before Memorial Day, but how was I to know that steam operations would stop at Labor Day! These so called "GREEN PEOPLE" are really getting carried away with their environmental policies!!! I'll never go back there! Jim | | | |
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Charles
1st Class Member
Conductor
Posts:636
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| | 11/08/2008 11:50 AM |
| | So, is this going to be policy for all National Parks? Not mentioned as such on website. Cannot image limited access to our National Parks. Maybe, someone is in the pocketbook of a politician or two. Running live steam on the limited basis to and from the Canyon would have very little environmental impact. i can understand cost factors and profit but the outstanding engine shops, reduced steam schedule and better off season promotion the program could have continued if one wanted it to. | |
Happy Trails on the Rails
Offering services to enhance your steam locomotive
Charles
SA #614
http://cebednarik.googlepages.com/home | |
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Tenn Steam
Brakeman
Posts:14
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| | 11/08/2008 12:46 PM |
| My understanding is limited access is not only at Grand Canyon, but also some other parks. The problem is more traffic-with increased pollution true- but more concerned with overcrowed roadways, parking lots and other problems of a large vehicle population.
I spent a summer in another western park and saw traffic jams due to any construction. At Great Smokey Mountain park, a bear cub can cause miles of backed up traffic.
A train to visit the park would be great, but the cost of building a rail bed to all overlooks and trail heads would quickly end this dream.
Bob | | | |
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Dave -- Use Coal
Santa Fe, Texas
Foreman
Posts:103
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| | 11/10/2008 10:03 AM |
| I have an excellant Pentrex Video titled Grand Canyon Railway. This video has great shots of the Mikado underway. (I am an old sailor -- is underway okay to use related to the railroad?)
One of the major points the narrator makes is that the railroad can have a major affect for GREEN. The railroad will allow access to the caynon rim after car traffic is restricted
Also, in the video there is a discussion of the need to hall water. It states the reason for halling water is the quality of water available at the rim. What is available is not suitable in the boiler.
Of course, I have no insight into the thinking of the new owner, but would like to see the steam engines continue to run. I guess somewhere along the way business is business. Eventually we may be glad there are passanger trains at all, even if they are not pulled by steam. | |
Dave Young --- K8DY'
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