Thanks Jim,
Looks perfect for the Revolution system. I wonder if they are available yet?

Yep, Phoenix seems intent on keeping high cost systems, even for those who do not need trigger inputs.

And they dropped the P5. (check their web site where all the units are shown, the P5 is "check for availablity" - BS, it's discontinued)

I'm shaking my head at this...

Regards, Greg

   Well, yeah but remember how much the Big Sound 97 was? $275.00!! and  that was over a decade ago! The2K2 was in the same ballpark! It wasn't until the P5 came out that the price dropped significantly. The old Sierras were $175 and this new Phoenix P8 promises quite a bit more! It's reasonable. Besides, you can still get P5's until the backstock runs out or you could even store up a couple for the future if you so desired (which is what I did with the Sierras.)

Street price on the 2k2 was not $275, realistically you are saving 20 to 30 bucks...

Now, I like saving money as much as the next guy, but FORCING people to buy more features than they want is not a great idea.

The P5 was a good idea, MUCH lower cost for the DCC only crowd.

Now it seems that they are trying to do everything with one unit... but they can't, the price is back up again.

I suspect the real reason is that the multiple models they had available overtaxed their ability to supply product. Ask any dealer/distributor about deliveries from Phoenix over the last 9 months.

Anyway, not trying to rag on them, but compare apples to apples, not list price of the 2k2 to the street price of the P8.

Regards, Greg

   That wasn't my intent and the $275 was the price of a Big sound 97. Back then, as you will recall, the choices were somewhat slim and the two big boys were Phoenix and Soundtraxx with their Sierra unit at $175. 16 bit vs 8 bit was the big comparison for sound and each had it's good and bad points. Phoenix answered most of it's criticisms of the BS97 by introducing the 2K2. I said the 2K2's price was in the same ballpark, not that it was identical! I consider $160 to $195 to be in the same ballpark. Yes, the P8 has more functions that some people won't need and I suspect that your explanation for them discontinuing the P5 is correct. I also suspect that the current state of the economy had more than a minor influence on their decision! I guess the point I'm trying to make is that prices will inevitably go up unless the technology advances to the point where new units are significantly cheaper to build (i.e. flat screen TV's.) It was a business decision and a correct one in my opinion. I'm glad they are giving us something new for the new price. Am I sorry to see the P5 go? Yes. It filled a necessary niche but the P8 adds to what the P5 could do! A $35 increase for this seems reasonable to me taking everything else into account. (Personally, I'm still miffed at Soundtraxx for dumping their Sierra line without having a new Tsunami ready to replace it! At least Phoenix came up with an alternative!)

Other systems available for $145 or less!! Show your support of phoenix buy the other, and then maybe they will lower they're retails! Regal


Whoo Hoo just hit the 800 post mark!! Yikes no wonder me fingers are worn down!! LOL

Okay, now you've got me curious! Could someone list the various sound systems available to Large Scale, whether they are digital or analog, whether they are DCC compatible, whether they are still available (i.e. Sierra: discontinued) and their retail price? I know it's a big request but it would definitely help anyone new to this discussion! I'm an old Sierra dog so I'm not really up on all of the different available systems that one might find in the marketplace or on ebay! I think it could really help. I know Garden Railways did an article a number of years ago. Obviously, it's now dated but a reference to that issue would also be helpful. Thanks!

As far as I know, there are no other decent sound systems available that can read mechanically chimed chuffs and have triggerable outputs for the various sounds.

Believe me, if there were I would be onto them like a shot to sell here in Australia.

My only gripe with Phoenix is not the price, as you only get what you pay for in this World. Rather, it is their terrible inability to deliver orders. I won't tell you the whole story, but again, believe me I am not on my own in having a good sound system business screwed up by their lack of ability to deliver in a timely fashion.

I only wish QSI would extract the digit and get on with making their sound system more user friendly for non DCC control systems.

Did not want to belabor the point, but I get tons of emails all the time with people agonizing over a 30 dollar difference between 2 alternative, So I see $30 out of 200 a big deal...

The P5 was $150, so for the market that did not need more triggers, it was a good product.

I don't see how the street price is going to be $165 Jim.. but people can hope.

The statement that I think is not really operational is : "I guess the point I'm trying to make is that prices will inevitably go up unless the technology advances to the point where new units are significantly cheaper to build"

Phoenix is using old technology, that's why a sound only board from them is more expensive than a sound AND motor control unit from QSI that has significantly more RAM, more CPU, more features overall (DCC, DC, AirWire).

That's what gets me... but the bottom line is that it's worth what people are willing to pay for... unfortunately, unless Phoenix gets with the program, it's days will be numbered too.


Regards, Greg

I am very unhappy with dropping the P5. Price isn't the only issue. I also worried about the size.

Yes, Phoenix stuff is sparse.  If QSI had triggers like Nick said, they would certianly be very attractive.  Maybe Phoenix's problem is lack of credit in these bad financial times, small buisness are hurting...........Jim

Apart from the triggers and chuffs on QSI, they must also be able to read a PWM input to work with non DCC control systems.

As nice as the idea seems I doubt they will.

I'm another one who wishes QSI had sound triggers. Non DCC users need to be able to trigger sounds and Phoenix is the only quality game in town. I'm surprised they dropped the P5 but glad they came out with the P8. Maybe they needed to consolidate their product line to keep their business healthy.

Here is hoping the Massoth sound will do as Keith says.
The promo does not actually say it does that.
Plus the price needs to be at least competitive with the P8 and hopefully the QSI.

Jim, your math is fine, but we are just guessing now, when it's actually being sold, then I will feel comfortable with the pricing estimated.

I was in an engineering/design meeting for the new QSI, the intent is to add triggers. And of course, I will feel comfortable when one is in my hand.

Tony, your requests were definitely aired in the meeting.

Regards, Greg

But can Phoenix deliver them? I've had 12 PB9s on order with Phoenix now for 9 weeks. They can't even supply the PB9 in a timely manor. Their product is fantastic, but it isn't worth anything if you cannot get it.

DCC users, do not forget Zimo, decoder and sound for under $200.

Like Phoenix, different sounds can be loaded by end user. MX690 even has reed/optical input controls.

Several models to choose, small MX640 for single motor units, and the larger MX690 series for the big engines.

I like Zimo, have one in a AML K4 Pacific. But no one can touch the variety of American sounds available from Phoenix, even the QSI sound library (until they bring over the HO sounds)...

Unfortunately, Zimo is "user supported" on the sounds, and the American choices are very slim.

Regards, Greg