Greg Elmassian
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| 09 Oct 2009 02:43 PM |
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I know Dave, I keep telling people to use them as logic signals, but people KEEP insisting. If we found out what they really are, then people might stop thinking of dangerous uses of them.
Is there any other board from Aristo (other than the smoke board) which can buffer these up to 100-500 ma each?
Regards, Greg |
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dbodnar
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| 09 Oct 2009 03:06 PM |
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Posted By Greg Elmassian on 09 Oct 2009 02:43 PM
I know Dave, I keep telling people to use them as logic signals, but people KEEP insisting. If we found out what they really are, then people might stop thinking of dangerous uses of them.
Is there any other board from Aristo (other than the smoke board) which can buffer these up to 100-500 ma each?
Regards, Greg
Greg - there is no other Aristo product that buffers the outputs - I have designed such a board and will be posting information on it sometime next week. It gives six buffered outputs that can each handle 0.5 amps - the board can be used to operate LEDs, 5 volt relays or any other device that operates on voltages up to 5 volts. dave
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Dave Bodnar
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Greg Elmassian
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| 09 Oct 2009 03:17 PM |
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Cool Dave!
Will you be putting bemf "snubber" diodes on it to protect the outputs if they are used with relays or other inductive loads?
Regards, Greg |
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Be sure to visit my site, lots of technical tips and modifications, and you can search for topics and key words.
Click here for Greg's web site
Note: I'm tired of the acrimony too, so I may not respond or participate in these types of threads. You can email me privately so I can help you without conflict.
PLEASE NOTE: I have disabled Private Messaging, please use regular email: greg@elmassian.com
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dbodnar
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| 09 Oct 2009 04:01 PM |
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Posted By Greg Elmassian on 09 Oct 2009 03:17 PM
Cool Dave!
Will you be putting bemf "snubber" diodes on it to protect the outputs if they are used with relays or other inductive loads?
Regards, Greg
The device I am using (ULN2003a) has them built in so there is no need to add additional diode protection. That said, I have a habit of always adding a diode across the terminals of a relay, "Just in case!" dave
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Dave Bodnar
email: info@trainelectronics.com
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Greg Elmassian
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| 09 Oct 2009 04:26 PM |
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Looks good, 50v max on the internal clamp diodes should be enough. I always try to wire one right on the relay coil terminals, call me paranoid!
Will you be paralleling 2 of the outputs since you have 7 to work with, so you have one higher current one?
Looks like max package rating at 100% duty cycle takes you back to 100 ma each, did not look at the temp derating closely enough to see if that if a big factor.
Very cool... looking forward to seeing it and it will help a lot of people out.
Regards, Greg |
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Be sure to visit my site, lots of technical tips and modifications, and you can search for topics and key words.
Click here for Greg's web site
Note: I'm tired of the acrimony too, so I may not respond or participate in these types of threads. You can email me privately so I can help you without conflict.
PLEASE NOTE: I have disabled Private Messaging, please use regular email: greg@elmassian.com
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lownote
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| 09 Oct 2009 04:52 PM |
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Oops!!--somehow posted in the wrong thread
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Bills
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| 09 Oct 2009 08:50 PM |
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Hi Jerry
I may have this wrong as it is long thread , but did you say you were planning to run up to 20 amps through your track? If so that seems excessive as your I believe track runs under your house. Sorry if I got the info wrong
Bill |
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Jerry McColgan
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| 10 Oct 2009 09:37 AM |
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Posted By Bills on 09 Oct 2009 08:50 PM
Hi Jerry
I may have this wrong as it is long thread , but did you say you were planning to run up to 20 amps through your track? If so that seems excessive as your I believe track runs under your house. Sorry if I got the info wrong
Bill
Hi Bill,
Sometimes I mention a layout without being specific because it can get confusing in that I have several layouts depending on how a layout is defined.
My comment about the 20 amps was somewhat hypothetical in that I was comparing running a pair of Aristo-Craft F1-ABBAs with lighted coaches under MTS (impossible because of the MTS 5 amp limit) to the Revolution where theoretically two F1-ABBAs equipped with 4 decoders (one decoder per AB set) could handle up to 20 amps and actually more because the smoke and coach lights are independently powered from the rails..
The actual maximum power I have available to run my layouts is about 15 amps and when running two F1-ABBA pullings a total of 12 lighted streamliners I don't get near the 15 amps but the trains do exceed the power available through several of my remote controls. I expect the Revolution to resolve the problem because receivers in the locos should be able to draw as much current and volts as necessary.
Jerry |
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Stan Cedarleaf
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dbodnar
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| 15 Oct 2009 04:02 AM |
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Posted By Greg Elmassian on 09 Oct 2009 09:09 AM
Dave, I've been asked numerous times on the capacity of these 6 connections. Do you have an individual milliamp rating and max for all of them in a conducting state?
I haven't looked closely at my board, maybe I can see the device, but I suspect these may come directly from the micro.
Do you have any info?
Regards, Greg
Greg - I did some research on the devices that connect to the Auxiliary outputs on the Revolution. They are dual chip digital transistors (part # SUR521H) - the data sheet says that they can handle 100ma but I would not try that! I put some photos and some information about the Auxiliary Interface that I have been designing on my web page at: The interface is not quite done as the 5 volt version's regulator gets really hot when operated from higher voltages (15-23 volts) - I have ordered parts to change it over to a 12 volt system that should be more tolerant of higher voltages. dave
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Dave Bodnar
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Ward H
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| 15 Oct 2009 07:03 AM |
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Dave,
Are you expecting to offer this in kit form, as you do with some of your other projects? |
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dbodnar
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| 15 Oct 2009 07:25 AM |
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Posted By Ward H on 15 Oct 2009 07:03 AM
Dave,
Are you expecting to offer this in kit form, as you do with some of your other projects?
More than likely, Ward, so long as the folks ordering the kit realize that the components are surface mount. I could redesign the board to take through-pin components but it would be quite a bit larger. dave
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Dave Bodnar
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Ward H
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| 15 Oct 2009 07:42 AM |
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Understand about the surface mount devices. Does that mean you were thinking of selling the board ready to go? |
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dbodnar
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| 15 Oct 2009 07:48 AM |
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Posted By Ward H on 15 Oct 2009 07:42 AM
Understand about the surface mount devices. Does that mean you were thinking of selling the board ready to go?
Ward - that is a possibility - depends on the demand, if any! The cost would also be an issue as building them by hand is tedious.... I could go to an automated production company if demand was there....
dave
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Dave Bodnar
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Stan Cedarleaf
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| 15 Oct 2009 08:22 AM |
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Dave... changing the subject slightly in direction....
What is the possibility of producing the adapter board (or kit) for the Sierra diesel sound modules?
It eliminates the need for the 6 volt battery when running with battery power and filters out the PWC to the input terminals 7 & 8 on the Sierra modules.
I think the 6 volt battery would still be needed if the REVOLUTION is powered by track power.
Sierra used to sell the kits for $25 MSRP. |
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Dewey, AZ
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Ward H
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| 15 Oct 2009 09:43 AM |
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Dave,
My guess is that the board would only be desired by those who are willing to re-wire their locos for prototypical control of lighting. That kind of wiring work is not for most people. With two smoke boards I can control the things I want, smoke and cab lights. I would weigh the ease and cost of two smoke boards compared to your board. Just my thoughts.
I think there would be a market for Sierra adapter board. I just traded three Sierra units due to their not working with PWC. I would have kept them if I did not have to build my own adapter boards.
In any case, I will follow your development of any accessory for the Revo closely.
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dbodnar
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| 15 Oct 2009 10:06 AM |
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Posted By Ward H on 15 Oct 2009 09:43 AM
Dave,
My guess is that the board would only be desired by those who are willing to re-wire their locos for prototypical control of lighting. That kind of wiring work is not for most people. With two smoke boards I can control the things I want, smoke and cab lights. I would weigh the ease and cost of two smoke boards compared to your board. Just my thoughts.
I think there would be a market for Sierra adapter board. I just traded three Sierra units due to their not working with PWC. I would have kept them if I did not have to build my own adapter boards.
In any case, I will follow your development of any accessory for the Revo closely.
Stan & Ward - I am unlikely to do any work on the Sierra circuit as I normally only work on projects that are of personal interest to me and I have no plans on installing a Sierra card in any of my Revolution controlled locomotives. I'l let you know if that changes. dave
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Dave Bodnar
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Greg Elmassian
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| 15 Oct 2009 10:08 AM |
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Aren't 2 Aristo smoke boards $30 street price?
To make these in small volumes is probably not going to make financial sense.
My opinion would be to provide etched boards and a parts list. The sierra boards would be nice, but demand has to be very low, no matter how many people want it, it's got to be very little volume.
But, maybe we can get Dave to do the artwork for one of these too...
If the parts are all surface mount, the boards should be easier to produce, since no drilling... but it seems you can never get completely rid of through hole components!
Regards, Greg
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Be sure to visit my site, lots of technical tips and modifications, and you can search for topics and key words.
Click here for Greg's web site
Note: I'm tired of the acrimony too, so I may not respond or participate in these types of threads. You can email me privately so I can help you without conflict.
PLEASE NOTE: I have disabled Private Messaging, please use regular email: greg@elmassian.com
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Stan Cedarleaf
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| 15 Oct 2009 10:48 AM |
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Posted By Greg Elmassian on 15 Oct 2009 10:08 AM {snip}
But, maybe we can get Dave to do the artwork for one of these too...
If the parts are all surface mount, the boards should be easier to produce, since no drilling... but it seems you can never get completely rid of through hole components!
Regards, Greg
Greg, Great suggestion.
It sure would help if someone could make a "Do it by the numbers" drawing. Even a "through the hole" board would work.
I have all the schematics and a list of the components for the adapter boards but not able to readily decipher them.
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Dewey, AZ
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Jerry McColgan
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| 16 Oct 2009 07:53 AM |
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Here is the Soundtraxx Sierra circuit board:
I am waiting to hear from Soundtraxx if it might be possible to buy just the circuit board.
Jerry
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Greg Elmassian
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| 16 Oct 2009 11:34 AM |
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Stan, I think I understand your comment, I did not at first.
I have some documentation (I believe from you!) That shows various interface circuits for the Sierra to different locos/systems.
It looks like they used this board as a universal interface.
What is missing from my information is a complete schematic, which shows the "W" connections.
I could figure it out I guess, but all of the Sierra documentation seems to NOT have this info.
So, while it's a snap to put the parts in place, since the part numbers are silk screened on the boards, and all the interface schematics show the part values, it's the "W" connections that have been left off the interface schematics.
Weird... do you have a complete schematic of this board somewhere? I cannot find one, and not one that shows all 3 optoisolators.
Regards, Greg
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Be sure to visit my site, lots of technical tips and modifications, and you can search for topics and key words.
Click here for Greg's web site
Note: I'm tired of the acrimony too, so I may not respond or participate in these types of threads. You can email me privately so I can help you without conflict.
PLEASE NOTE: I have disabled Private Messaging, please use regular email: greg@elmassian.com
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Jerry McColgan
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| 16 Oct 2009 12:11 PM |
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Posted By Greg Elmassian on 16 Oct 2009 11:34 AM
It looks like they used this board as a universal interface.
What is missing from my information is a complete schematic, which shows the "W" connections.
Weird... do you have a complete schematic of this board somewhere? I cannot find one, and not one that shows all 3 optoisolators.
Hi Greg,
I think what you are looking for is here:
The following is on an earlier post I made which covers the entire instruction manual...
Here are the pages for the adapter board installation kit:
http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/jerrymccolgan/Sierra/Soundtraxx1.jpg
http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/jerrymccolgan/Sierra/Soundtraxx2.jpg
http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/jerrymccolgan/Sierra/Soundtraxx3.jpg
http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/jerrymccolgan/Sierra/Soundtraxx4.jpg
http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/jerrymccolgan/Sierra/Soundtraxx5.jpg
http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/jerrymccolgan/Sierra/Soundtraxx6.jpg
http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/jerrymccolgan/Sierra/Soundtraxx7.jpg
http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/jerrymccolgan/Sierra/Soundtraxx8.jpg
http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/jerrymccolgan/Sierra/Soundtraxx9.jpg
http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/jerrymccolgan/Sierra/Soundtraxx10.jpg
http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/jerrymccolgan/Sierra/Soundtraxx11.jpg
http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/jerrymccolgan/Sierra/Soundtraxx12.jpg
http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/jerrymccolgan/Sierra/Soundtraxx13.jpg
http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/jerrymccolgan/Sierra/Soundtraxx14.jpg
http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/jerrymccolgan/Sierra/Soundtraxx15.jpg
http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/jerrymccolgan/Sierra/Soundtraxx16.jpg
http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/jerrymccolgan/Sierra/Soundtraxx17.jpg
http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/jerrymccolgan/Sierra/Soundtraxx18.jpg
http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/jerrymccolgan/Sierra/Soundtraxx19.jpg
http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/jerrymccolgan/Sierra/Soundtraxx20.jpg |
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Greg Elmassian
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| 16 Oct 2009 12:21 PM |
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That's great Jerry! (I shoulda known you had this!)
Those are extensive instructions. Stan, with this data, is there still confusion?
I suppose you could rewrite the instructions to be specific for each install, but I see no problem here. Am I missing something?
Regards, Greg |
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Be sure to visit my site, lots of technical tips and modifications, and you can search for topics and key words.
Click here for Greg's web site
Note: I'm tired of the acrimony too, so I may not respond or participate in these types of threads. You can email me privately so I can help you without conflict.
PLEASE NOTE: I have disabled Private Messaging, please use regular email: greg@elmassian.com
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Stan Cedarleaf
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| 16 Oct 2009 01:59 PM |
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Greg, I have those same drawings in my files and have looked at them a number of times. I really have a mental block knowing what goes where. I guess if I were to study and try to figure it out, I might be able to make it. I don't have a board to to work with. That's why a diagram using regular "through the hole" boards and a related parts list would be easier for me. 
Fortunately, I do have a number wired boards to work with. But when they're gone, I'll need to dig into it much deeper. 
Just thinking of the future..
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Jerry McColgan
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| 16 Oct 2009 02:25 PM |
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Posted By Stan Cedarleaf on 16 Oct 2009 01:59 PM
a diagram using regular "through the hole" boards and a related parts list would be easier for me.
Fortunately, I do have a number wired boards to work with. But when they're gone, I'll need to dig into it much deeper.
That describes my situation as well.
Stan (or anyone), if it would help to have a bare board to create a diagram using through the hole boards I could loan one of mine as I have not yet started building a complete circuit. Perhaps the images below of both sides will be sufficient.
Unfortunately it appears that there are printed circuits on both sides of the board which may make designing a through the hole board more difficult.
Jerry |
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