Phippsburg Eric 1st Class Member
 Brakeman Send Message Posts:656

 |
| 14 Dec 2011 06:20 PM |
|
I have been thinking about doing a 7/8th engine and maybe you are right and I should do it as 7/8th scale. I had an idea to build a new boiler for it which burns wood pellets as sold for pellet stoves all around the north country...the stuff seems to burn in a manner similar to coal. The engine served out its life at a paper mill just outside Portland. I suspect the cars carried Really big rolls or bales of paper. In fact I think you can see them inside the doors of the car. I enlarged the photo and looked carefully.
|
|
| Eric Schade
Winnegance and Quebec Railway
SA #5649
|
|
|
Dr. J 1st Class Member
 Passenger Send Message Posts:145

 |
| 15 Dec 2011 06:26 AM |
|
A wood burning live steamer. Gotta hand it to you for innovation. Do you suppose there's enough thermal energy locked up in the wood pellets to make it work? i.e. can you make a hot enough fire that lasts long enough per pellet, in such a small firebox? The physics of wood-burning (or coal-burning) doesnt "scale" down to our size very well.
I just found this: http://www.raghavlpg.com/auto%20lpg.html , from which I learn that wood has about one third the energy content of butane (15 vs 45), but it compares favorably to coal (15 BTU/gm for wood, 22 cal/gm for coal).
You would need to think about volume of fuel as well, given the small size of our fireboxes. It's not BTU/gm that counts, as much as it is BTU/cc of space in the firebox. If coal is denser than wood, then you can stuff more BTUs into the firebox. I have no idea about the pellets; maybe that information is printed on the bag, or available from the mfgr.
Very cool idea. Jim C aka Dr. J |
|
|
|
|
Phippsburg Eric 1st Class Member
 Brakeman Send Message Posts:656

 |
| 15 Dec 2011 12:29 PM |
|
We probably should get into the details of pellet burning elsewhere rather than commandeer Richards building thread! If I convert a Ruby to a 7/8 scale engine I would show some photos in a separate thread as well. But taking Richards advice and running with it, I drew up an engine based on the Ruby which resembles the little S D Warren Paper Mill Engine. I think it looks pretty good! If I am feeling rich I may spring for a kit! I show the Ruby's domes (more or less) moved up to the top of the tank. I moved the sand dome toward the cab...have to think about what that would do to access boiler fittings-my old kit boiler had it's fill under the sand dome.
|
|
| Eric Schade
Winnegance and Quebec Railway
SA #5649
|
|
|
rkapuaala
 Foreman Send Message Posts:1705

 |
| 15 Dec 2011 03:15 PM |
|
Eric, Look at my solution on this thread. My dome is fixed, and I have a silicone tube leading to my goodall valve underneath the tank. The fill nipple is going to be hid by the filler cap on the front of the tank. |
|
 I keep forgetting we're not in Kansas! |
|
|
rkapuaala
 Foreman Send Message Posts:1705

 |
| 27 Feb 2012 05:15 PM |
|
I intended to work a little on Kauila's head lamp top and then on Olomana's side frames. However, after starting on the forms. I quickly realized that none of my router bits had the proper size radius and I was going to have to create the forms completely by hand with a combination of files and small hand planes. I was able to cut the rough shape out on the table saw, other wise I'd be working on this for the whole week. However, I didn't finish the form till around 3 P.M. so I only got to fabricate one part from it. I took Henner's suggestion and used copper instead of brass. Henner is really good with the solder and I've seen examples of his edge to edge soldder, but I'm not that good so, I am putting tabs on the front and back parts and then soldering the sides on top of them. I'll get back to working on Olomana tomorrow after I finish this top once and for all.
|
|
 I keep forgetting we're not in Kansas! |
|
|
rkapuaala
 Foreman Send Message Posts:1705

 |
| 28 Feb 2012 12:27 PM |
|
Got the parts formed this morning. I need to burnish them a little but first I want to clean them off. I have them in some vinegar now. I'll leave them in there for a couple of hours then take them out and burnish them and then back in the vinegar for a short period and then right to soldering.
|
|
 I keep forgetting we're not in Kansas! |
|
|
Phippsburg Eric 1st Class Member
 Brakeman Send Message Posts:656

 |
| 28 Feb 2012 02:51 PM |
|
Looks like you have a good shape coming along! I have used a green Scotch Bright pad to scuff off the residual gunk when soldering my boiler it works great, just don't bring it back to the kitchen when you are done. steel wool works too. |
|
| Eric Schade
Winnegance and Quebec Railway
SA #5649
|
|
|
rkapuaala
 Foreman Send Message Posts:1705

 |
| 28 Feb 2012 07:40 PM |
|
Well, today started out good. I still need to clean it and square it up a little but I did finish soldering the top, it did solder a little easier this time. But I lost my form :( I did a real bone head thing. I used my form as a jig for soldering. It wasn't the heat the ruined the form, it was me forgetting to stop, look and think before I committed to an action. Had I done so, I would have instantly realized that the compound curves would have presented a bit of a struggle to remove after soldering. My mistake became instantaneously clear as I proudly held the soldered piece up for inspection. To compound the initial error, I panicked, grabbed a dremel and started carving away at the form to remove the top from the bottom. As I got closer to success the panic started to subsided it was then I realized "curses foiled again!" I rushed in without thinking that I could just as easily heated the pieces up, removed them from the form and then built an appropriate jig for the job. I'd like to think I learned something from this fiasco,,,, but only time will tell :)
|
|
 I keep forgetting we're not in Kansas! |
|
|
Amber
 Brakeman Send Message Posts:393

 |
| 28 Feb 2012 08:04 PM |
|
I think that falls into the category of "OOPS!" :-) |
|
|
|
|
rkapuaala
 Foreman Send Message Posts:1705

 |
| 29 Feb 2012 09:39 AM |
|
Amber at the time,,, I placed it in a little more profain category than OOPs;) |
|
 I keep forgetting we're not in Kansas! |
|
|
rkapuaala
 Foreman Send Message Posts:1705

 |
| 29 Feb 2012 03:55 PM |
|
Luckily this is the worse side of the top. All the steel wool and burnishing brightened it up a little, but I can still see the tiny dings from the forming process. I'm going to have to put some filler on it especially to feather in the side parts. The are only 1/64 of inch thick, but it looks like a huge edge sticking up, and I want to feather it in so as to look a gentle rise like a detail I meant to put in. I have learned a lot from this though, and it will do for now, but part of me just wanted to scap everything and start over again from scratch. I even have a better idea for the forms. If the lamp works, then I will do just that,,,, or I may just make a 1:12 version for Olomana, even though she didn't sport a lamp during her career on the plantation.
|
|
 I keep forgetting we're not in Kansas! |
|
|
Phippsburg Eric 1st Class Member
 Brakeman Send Message Posts:656

 |
| 29 Feb 2012 05:53 PM |
|
Lookin good Richard! possibly you may want to try solder rather than putty? might stick better? or just file it flat if you have enough metal. |
|
| Eric Schade
Winnegance and Quebec Railway
SA #5649
|
|
|
rkapuaala
 Foreman Send Message Posts:1705

 |
| 29 Feb 2012 06:49 PM |
|
Posted By Phippsburg Eric on 29 Feb 2012 05:53 PM
Lookin good Richard! possibly you may want to try solder rather than putty? might stick better? or just file it flat if you have enough metal.
I did a low temp solder for the top. I don't want to risk it falling apart. I used JB weld as a fill and then primed it. I'll check the primer out for areas that still need fill and fill those with bondo and then prime again before painting. |
|
 I keep forgetting we're not in Kansas! |
|
|
Amber
 Brakeman Send Message Posts:393

 |
| 29 Feb 2012 10:59 PM |
|
Good looking light! |
|
|
|
|
rkapuaala
 Foreman Send Message Posts:1705

 |
| 01 Mar 2012 09:35 AM |
|
Amber, Thanks, its not perfect, but it is good enough for a first attempt;) |
|
 I keep forgetting we're not in Kansas! |
|
|
Amber
 Brakeman Send Message Posts:393

 |
| 01 Mar 2012 08:45 PM |
|
If you really dislike it, you can send it to me. :-) |
|
|
|
|
rkapuaala
 Foreman Send Message Posts:1705

 |
| 02 Mar 2012 04:24 PM |
|
Well, I'd show you some pics of todays work, but it seems I lost my first class status. I worked on the reflector today. I'd had trouble with it fracturing aound the predrilled holes, and thought maybe I was making the holes too big. I can tell you now, that this is not the case. I drilled 1/64" holes today and they still fracture, in fact, they fractured faster than they did when they were large. I don't know if I was going faster and that was why or if it is something to day with the brass itself. Anyway, I decided to just drill the holes after I hammered out the reflector and guess what! Before I could get half way to the depth I wanted, a small fracture started to appear. I decided to just go ahead and stop at that point and leverage the crack to see if I could still drill it out enough to make the holes for the chimney. If I could show you a picture, you could see that I was able to pass a 3/16 dowel through the two holes and mount it in the light case as a test. Unfortunately the reflector is not deep enough. For one the chimney of the lamp ends up too far forward and because it isn't deep enough I am limited to 3/16" for the chimney. I was hoping to form a bulb with at least a 5/16" bulb for the combustion chamber. It also reduce the amount of reflective surface being so shollow. I've come to the conclusion that my skills and the metal are ok, the method I am using, is not. While this method works fine on 1:20 scale and lower reflectors, it does not for the larger reflectors. I'm going to need to make a form that I can drape the brass over and hammer on instead of the block I'm currently using with concaved circles in it. I am theorizing that the brass is just getting caught up on the edges and restricting the material so much it just stresses and cracks. I'll make a maple form tomorrow and try it in reverse. On a good note though, I discovered that drilling and aligning the holes after fabrication isn't nearly as hard as I originally thought it would be, so I'm going to skip doing that using the new method. Amber,,, I think I'll hang on to it, thanks ;) |
|
 I keep forgetting we're not in Kansas! |
|
|
Ray Cadd
 Passenger Send Message Posts:52

 |
| 02 Mar 2012 04:35 PM |
|
Like what you're doing! I've been thinking something similar, using Ruby as a platform. I'm an Olomana fan too- got to fire the real thing many years ago, when Mr. Best still owned it.
RE your reflector, maybe I missed it in the previous text, but are you annealing your work as you go? Sounds like work hardening to me..
|
|
|
|
|
HMeinhold
 Brakeman Send Message Posts:560

 |
| 02 Mar 2012 04:55 PM |
|
Rick, you may want to try spinning in the lathe. Dennis and I can explain it to you via Skype on Saturday. Regards |
|
Henner Donkey Doctor East Devils Hill Lumber Co. |
|
|
rkapuaala
 Foreman Send Message Posts:1705

 |
| 02 Mar 2012 05:17 PM |
|
Yep, always annealing as I go. Henner, I know about the spining in a lathe, I just prefer forming it this way. One other thing about the lathe spining is I think you have to start out with a hole in the center and I don't want a hole in the center. Ray, you have any personal pics of Olomana? Henner and I are working on a scale model of her. |
|
 I keep forgetting we're not in Kansas! |
|
|
Phippsburg Eric 1st Class Member
 Brakeman Send Message Posts:656

 |
| 02 Mar 2012 05:32 PM |
|
Rick, if you make a male form, you might try making it of steel so you can use it like an anvil. I have had only limited success doing deep shaping of brass even when annealed. if all else fails copper can be shaped more easily, I guess it would need to be plated to give it the right shine. I think if you plated it with nickel it would be shiny but not crazy bright like chrome would be...I haven't tried plating so I cannot speak to what is possible, how hard it is to do and how expensive. I have made reflectors by machining them from a solid bar of Aluminum then polishing them a bit with fine sand paper or steel wool. they come out pretty shiny though, which may not be the look you want. on another subject what did you use for your number plate? I have a Trackside Details Baldwin plate (#3) but wonder if it is too small by a couple of scales. were all the Baldwin number plates the same size? it should look huge on a ickle-bitty engine like these. |
|
| Eric Schade
Winnegance and Quebec Railway
SA #5649
|
|
|
Ray Cadd
 Passenger Send Message Posts:52

 |
| 02 Mar 2012 05:32 PM |
|
I don't think I have any good detail shots, just some long views of Ward's backyard that tried to fit everything in. I was about 13 at the time, and was too amped up to think about taking decent pictures. They're on old slides too. I have to transfer them to digital someday, need to find someone to do it. |
|
|
|
|
rkapuaala
 Foreman Send Message Posts:1705

 |
| 02 Mar 2012 06:07 PM |
|
Eric, the top is made from a maple male form. I think maple will be hard enough. The trick I find is do not hit it too hard. Work it slowly and evenly. I make all my reflectors with brass sheet using the femail steel form I have and made the body of the headlamp using a maple male form same as the top but easier because I only needed to form the corners and no curves. The top took several annealings and slow steady work. I don't like milling away at brass stock unless I have to. It seems like a waste to not form sheets instead, even then I resent the bits of scrap that are left over after forming. |
|
 I keep forgetting we're not in Kansas! |
|
|
DKRickman
 Brakeman Send Message Posts:676

 |
| 02 Mar 2012 11:12 PM |
|
I don't think you have to have a hole to spin a sheet on the lathe. If you can clamp the work between a male form and a backing pad (one in the headstock, one in the tailstock) with enough pressure to hold it securely (rubber might be helpful) I suspect you could spin it without difficulty. |
|
Kenneth Rickman
Salisbury, NC
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." - Robert J. Hanlon |
|
|
Amber
 Brakeman Send Message Posts:393

 |
| 02 Mar 2012 11:15 PM |
|
Just curious, have you thought about making the reflector from sheet nickle silver? A long time ago I made several things from sheet nickle silver and found that it was fairly easy to work. As I remember, it had to be annealed for forming, but it's pretty nice stuff to work with. |
|
|
|
|