| Author | Messages | |
DKRickman
1st Class Member
Salisbury, NC
Foreman
Posts:376
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 | | 09/04/2008 10:55 AM |
| I have this locomotive, Bachmann's side tank 0-4-0 (in my case, from a circus train).
The drivers are an interesing construction, having a metal rim, hub, and back, with a plastic "detail" insert in front (or outside, if you prefer). As you can see above, I tried to paint the spokes red, but the results were less than stellar. It would be a LOT easier if I could remove the plastic center and paint it seperately. Has anyone tried this? I might even be willing to destroy the centers that are there now, and make some beter looking ones. Any thoughts? | |
Kenneth Rickman - krickman1@carolina.rr.com
Salisbury, NC
If at first you don't succeed, use a bigger hammer! | |
| peter bunce
Moderator
near manchester, England
Foreman
Posts:365
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| | 09/04/2008 11:14 AM |
| Hi,
IF the centers are like the 4 4 0 & mogul they just 'flick' out,
Try using the back of a knife (so it is the wide and not the sharp side) and see if the can be lifted by pushing it in between the center and the rest of the wheel; it hides the fixing screw.
I would not remove the wheels though, they may be difficult to get back: fiddle a piece of paper up the back to stop red paint getting onto the chassis and have another go.
The cylinders (again from the 4 4 0 etc) undo with a central screw. | |
Peter Bunce.
my website is part of my daughters website at www.musiccorner.co.uk', under the G scale sections on the left hand side. | |
| Stan Cedarleaf
1st Class Member
Dewey, AZ
Conductor
Posts:612
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| | 09/04/2008 11:19 AM |
| Ken, it's been a loooooooooooooooong time since I've been into the B'Mann 0-4-0 but if I recall, those axles are split and you pull them apart from the inside. Also, if I can remember, the front axle is different from the back and it's not too convenient to take the inserts out. To try to pry them out with a screwdriver or pull them with a pair of needle nose pliers may scar the spokes.
You solution stated in your signature line is probably the best....   | |
 
Dewey, AZ
Cedarleaf Custom Railroad Decals | |
| cjwalas
1st Class Member
Santa Barbara, California
Foreman
Posts:130
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| | 09/04/2008 11:40 AM |
| BE very careful! The driver centers do come out, but not as easily as the ten-wheeler ones, in my experience. The rear axle on this model is very delicate in the center, where Stan mentions the half axles meet, and if you grasp the axle too hard prying the wheel centers out, you may break the small metal pin in the axle. If you do that, there's no easy repair for it that I know of. Bachmann is no help at all on this issue and you may wind up having to just dump the loco because of it.
Having said that, the centers can be pried out. I usually use a tiny flathead screwdriver and very gently pry the plastic insert out a little at a time, spoke by spoke. Slowly. Really slowly.
Chris | |
Chris Walas - Rogue County Rwy
Santa Barbra, California
( click here to visit the Rogue County Rwy ) | |
| DKRickman
1st Class Member
Salisbury, NC
Foreman
Posts:376
Send Message
| | 09/04/2008 12:01 PM |
| Posted By peter bunce on 09/04/2008 11:14 AM
Hi,
IF the centers are like the 4 4 0 & mogul they just 'flick' out,
Try using the back of a knife (so it is the wide and not the sharp side) and see if the can be lifted by pushing it in between the center and the rest of the wheel; it hides the fixing screw.
Part of my problem is that I don't see any good place to put the blade. I'm not sure how the 4-4-0 and mogul drivers are made, but on thise model, the piece I want to remove is the entire driver center, spokes and all. It seems to be the same construction as the Big Hauler and Annie drivers.
I would not remove the wheels though, they may be difficult to get back: fiddle a piece of paper up the back to stop red paint getting onto the chassis and have another go.
I can remove the wheels without difficulty, though they come out as a unit with both wheels and the axle (and the motor & gearing on the rear set). I don't really need to pull the wheels off the axles, just remove the centers for painting.
The cylinders (again from the 4 4 0 etc) undo with a central screw.
Thanks, Peter, but on this one, all I had to start with was a bare chassis, so the cylinders, boiler, and everything else is scratchbuilt by myself. As such, removing the cylinders hasn't given me any trouble. 
Posted By Stan Cedarleaf on 09/04/2008 11:19 AM
Ken, it's been a loooooooooooooooong time since I've been into the B'Mann 0-4-0 but if I recall, those axles are split and you pull them apart from the inside.
Stan, do you know if there is any sort of keying or registration to keep the wheels quartered, or do they just slip into the central insulated portion? I probably won't mess with removing the wheels, but it's crossed my mind. Besides, it's always nice to know how to take something apart if I need to.
Also, if I can remember, the front axle is different from the back and it's not too convenient to take the inserts out.
Are the inserts different, or just the wheels & axles?
Also, do you know if the inserts are glued in, or just press fit?
To try to pry them out with a screwdriver or pull them with a pair of needle nose pliers may scar the spokes. You solution stated in your signature line is probably the best.... " border=0> " border=0> " border=0>
That may be exactly what I'll have to do, Stan. If the insulators on the axles weren't plastic, I might just take a torch to the wheels, and burn the centers out!  Guess I can't play with fire on this one. | |
Kenneth Rickman - krickman1@carolina.rr.com
Salisbury, NC
If at first you don't succeed, use a bigger hammer! | |
| DKRickman
1st Class Member
Salisbury, NC
Foreman
Posts:376
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| | 09/04/2008 12:04 PM |
| Posted By cjwalas on 09/04/2008 11:40 AM
BE very careful! The driver centers do come out, but not as easily as the ten-wheeler ones, in my experience. The rear axle on this model is very delicate in the center, where Stan mentions the half axles meet, and if you grasp the axle too hard prying the wheel centers out, you may break the small metal pin in the axle. If you do that, there's no easy repair for it that I know of. Bachmann is no help at all on this issue and you may wind up having to just dump the loco because of it.
Having said that, the centers can be pried out. I usually use a tiny flathead screwdriver and very gently pry the plastic insert out a little at a time, spoke by spoke. Slowly. Really slowly.
Chris
Thanks, Chris! That's the encouragement I needed - someone who's actually done it. Do you think it would be safer to hold the wheels mounted in the chassis, or take them out and hold them by some other means? | |
Kenneth Rickman - krickman1@carolina.rr.com
Salisbury, NC
If at first you don't succeed, use a bigger hammer! | |
| peter bunce
Moderator
near manchester, England
Foreman
Posts:365
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| | 09/04/2008 12:57 PM |
| Hi Ken
No the centers I was talking about are the bits with the stars on them ONLY. I don't think that tyhe entire center with the spokes on is removeable as I would expect some insulation to be between thwe tire and the center (including the spokes casting) to be in one piece.
In addition the tire will be of a difefrent metal.
Sorry if I misled you; from your replies I do not theink that the whole center (incl the spokes) will come apart from the rest of the wheel which will be the insulation (if any) and the tire.
| |
Peter Bunce.
my website is part of my daughters website at www.musiccorner.co.uk', under the G scale sections on the left hand side. | |
| cjwalas
1st Class Member
Santa Barbara, California
Foreman
Posts:130
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| | 09/04/2008 3:00 PM |
| OK, for clarification. I removed one of the centers just now to illustrate.
The entire plastic center is removable. Unlike many spoked wheels, the 0-4-0 has cast wheel and half axles. The axles meet in the axle gear in a plastic insulator. One axle has a smaller square peg to register in the gear. This square peg is the dangerous and delicate part. It snaps very easily, be careful!
I don't know if removing the axle makes it any easier or not. I suspect it would make it easier to break the axle register pin. I was right when I said these don't come out as easily as the ten-wheeler ones. These are a tighter fit. The problem area is the rod arm; it's really tight there. What worked for me was to use a small screwdriver from behind the wheel, i.e., from between the wheels underneath the chassis. Position the wheel so that the rod arm section is accessible through the small open area at the back of the wheel. Mine's moved a little here, but you can see what I mean, I think;
GENTLY push the plastic center from behind, working from one side and the other until it moves out a bit. Then, from the outside of the wheel, use the screwdriver to GENTLY pry the counterweight section of plastic loose. Be forewarned that the counterweight section comes loose MUCH easier than the rod arm section.
You should be able to work the whole center loose this way. I'm not sure I would do it just to paint the wheel center myself, as you really should be painting the metal spokes as well as the plastic center spokes, no?
The important thing is that it can be done, if you feel the need to do so. But again, I advise great care as I think I must have snapped three or more of these axles doing bashes...and I was careful!
Good luck and I look forward to seeing the finished loco!
Chris | |
Chris Walas - Rogue County Rwy
Santa Barbra, California
( click here to visit the Rogue County Rwy ) | |
| DKRickman
1st Class Member
Salisbury, NC
Foreman
Posts:376
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| | 09/04/2008 3:11 PM |
| Well, they're out. Took all of 5 minutes, including getting up the nerve to break them (which is what ended up happening). Looks like I'll get my wish of having something better. I'll use the opportunity to modify the side rods and crank pins, narrowing them somewhat and improving their function. Good thing I haven't finished the cylinder saddle yet - it's about to be hacked up and narrowed. Hopefully the result will be worth the extra effort.
I'll post pictures on my ongoing construction thread. | |
Kenneth Rickman - krickman1@carolina.rr.com
Salisbury, NC
If at first you don't succeed, use a bigger hammer! | |
| DKRickman
1st Class Member
Salisbury, NC
Foreman
Posts:376
Send Message
| | 09/04/2008 3:20 PM |
| Posted By cjwalas on 09/04/2008 3:00 PM
OK, for clarification. I removed one of the centers just now to illustrate.
...
You should be able to work the whole center loose this way. I'm not sure I would do it just to paint the wheel center myself, as you really should be painting the metal spokes as well as the plastic center spokes, no?
I plan on painting the entire metal portion of the wheel (except the rim and tread) flat black, to make it hide in the shadows. By painting only the plastic portion, hopefully the spokes will look nice and thin, fitting the dainty lady they're going on.
The important thing is that it can be done, if you feel the need to do so. But again, I advise great care as I think I must have snapped three or more of these axles doing bashes...and I was careful!
Good luck and I look forward to seeing the finished loco!
Chris
I ended up breaking the plastic centers, but thankfully not the axles. I tried not to, but as you mention, they're fragile. And having painted them, the paint had glued them in place. I'm not too upset about that, since I really wanted to slim that huge counterweight down anyway. I may ever cut out a little of the metal behind it's location, and open the spokes up close to the hub. Depends on how much grinding I feel like doing.
Thanks for your help, Chris. It's great to have folks out here with the useful knowledge and willingness to help a new modeller. | |
Kenneth Rickman - krickman1@carolina.rr.com
Salisbury, NC
If at first you don't succeed, use a bigger hammer! | |
| DKRickman
1st Class Member
Salisbury, NC
Foreman
Posts:376
Send Message
| | 09/06/2008 8:29 AM |
| Posted By cjwalas on 09/04/2008 11:40 AM
BE very careful! The rear axle on this model is very delicate in the center, where Stan mentions the half axles meet, and if you grasp the axle too hard prying the wheel centers out, you may break the small metal pin in the axle. If you do that, there's no easy repair for it that I know of. Bachmann is no help at all on this issue and you may wind up having to just dump the loco because of it.
Chris,
I ended up accidentally pulling the drivers apart. Thankfully, I pulled parallel to the axle, and they just separated cleanly. I learned a few things, including the fact that quartering will not be an issus, and that the plastic drive gear is on a square axle, so slippage won't be an issue. | |
Kenneth Rickman - krickman1@carolina.rr.com
Salisbury, NC
If at first you don't succeed, use a bigger hammer! | |
| DKRickman
1st Class Member
Salisbury, NC
Foreman
Posts:376
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| | 09/07/2008 4:50 PM |
| | Out of curiosity, would anyone be interested if I were to make a new center insert out of resin and offer them for sale? I have to make 4 identical replacements, so I'm thinking of casting them. Just curious if anyone else would have a use for such a thing. | |
Kenneth Rickman - krickman1@carolina.rr.com
Salisbury, NC
If at first you don't succeed, use a bigger hammer! | |
| cjwalas
1st Class Member
Santa Barbara, California
Foreman
Posts:130
Send Message
| | 09/07/2008 4:58 PM |
| I think the question is less one of replacing the plastic housing than it is replacing the half axle with the square insert end. It's that square insert that usually has broken off. Is that what you're suggesting?
Chris | |
Chris Walas - Rogue County Rwy
Santa Barbra, California
( click here to visit the Rogue County Rwy ) | |
| DKRickman
1st Class Member
Salisbury, NC
Foreman
Posts:376
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| | 09/07/2008 5:01 PM |
| Chris,
I'm talking about replaceing the (purely cosmetic) plastic centers which you so kindly described how to remove. Since I broke mine, and since I didn't really like they way they looked anyway, I'm making new ones. I'm still undecided whether to make a set of 4 in styrene, or to make a master and cast them in resin. | |
Kenneth Rickman - krickman1@carolina.rr.com
Salisbury, NC
If at first you don't succeed, use a bigger hammer! | |
| DKRickman
1st Class Member
Salisbury, NC
Foreman
Posts:376
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| | 09/21/2008 3:04 PM |
| Okay, it's been a bit, but I've managed to get a little done in between other, more pressing engagements. Now I need some advice. I'll definitely be making new centers, to replace the ones that I broke. I'll make at least one out of styrene, but what then?
I can make all 4 from styrene, one at a time. I could also use #1 as a master, and cast them. I've been thinking that it wouldn't be too hard to make a plaster mold, and cast the centers from either lead or zinc. I figure the extra weight down low can't hurt. I could cast them in resin, but that involves learning a new set of skills, and I'd rather save that for another day. It also costs money.
So what do you think? Cast them in lead? Zinc? Resin? Or just make all 4 out of styene? | |
Kenneth Rickman - krickman1@carolina.rr.com
Salisbury, NC
If at first you don't succeed, use a bigger hammer! | |
| DKRickman
1st Class Member
Salisbury, NC
Foreman
Posts:376
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| | 10/15/2008 9:09 PM |
| I finally got around to making the first center, as written up on my construction thread elsewhere. I've decided to use this one as a master, since I don't feel like making 3 more to match. The new one is on the left. | |
Kenneth Rickman - krickman1@carolina.rr.com
Salisbury, NC
If at first you don't succeed, use a bigger hammer! | |
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