wchasr 1st Class Member
 Foreman Send Message Posts:1472

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| 06 Sep 2010 09:35 AM |
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I'll chime in here with an educated geuss....The tie strips are injection molded where as the rail is extruded. The extrusion die is much cheaper versus the die for the tie strips. A die that is 5 foot or longer would be a huge die set and require a MUCH larger macine and present other problems with the plastic injecting completely and cooling at different rates as it was injected. So a smaller Tie strip is demanded by the cost of the tooling. The extrusion die I'm geussing is relatively inexpensive compared to the injection die. Although the Extruding machine may be more expensive than the Injection molding machine they are likely pretty similar in cost depending on size. Chas |
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Axel Tillmann 1st Class Member
 Brakeman Send Message Posts:680

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| 06 Sep 2010 09:39 AM |
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Cost......Cost and Cost and fluid dynamics.
The longer the form the higher the cost the more difficult it is to distribute the plastic into every area of the form, the more distribution channel hookups you need and the bigger the mold injection machine is the more expensive the production becomes. These bigger machines cost exponentially much more, and have less application then the smaller ones, so the amortization cost per production unit is much higher then with the smaller machines.
Rail doesn't have the problem because it is extruded, not molded.
Sorry this is a no go, becasue nobody would be willing to pay $4 or $5 per foot (up from $1 foot).
However, I have a ProTie swiss that endlessly interlocks (it has hook and loops at each end to you can put the together in very long stretches if you desire. |
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| Axel
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flats 1st Class Member
 Passenger Send Message Posts:168

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| 06 Sep 2010 10:24 AM |
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I don't see anything wrong with the 1ft ties, most people secure them in 1ft distance anyway except me about all of mine are floating. |
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Dave Ottney
 Passenger Send Message Posts:177

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| 07 Sep 2010 02:15 PM |
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Jim, The pueblos in the cave remind me of those found in Mesa Verde!! Anxious to hear how the plastic track hold up. Dave |
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pimanjc 1st Class Member
 Foreman Send Message Posts:1018

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| 07 Sep 2010 07:14 PM |
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Dave,
The pueblo buildings were modeled after a mix of Mesa Verde, and Manatou Springs. The clifts surrounding the pueblos were modeled after Mesa Verde from pictures I took there two summers ago.
So we don't derail this thread, for more detail on the dwellings, the construction is shown in detail in my 2010 Expansion thread : 2010 HARG Expansion p.7 starting with picture # 71.
I also look forward to seeing how the plastic rail holds up over time..... especially when I use the snow plow on it.
JimC.
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 "Never promise more than you can give. Always give more than you promise." ~JC "You don't stop laughing because you grow old, You grow old because you stop laughing." ~AU Charter Member of the Roundhouse Irregulars |
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gsawdy
 Passenger Send Message Posts:11

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| 07 Sep 2010 10:09 PM |
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You are right I wouldn't be interested in tie strip at $4/ft. Thank you both for the explanations of the actual production process. Live and learn, George |
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jgallaway81
 Brakeman Send Message Posts:264

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| 30 Sep 2010 12:03 PM |
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I was surprised to see the Train-Li booth at the ECLSTS. Having just ordered repair parts for one of the LGB 2-4-0 American engines, I had to stop in and thank Axel. Unfortunately he was busy with another customer, and in my rush to see the rest of the booths I didn't get to return to TL to talk to him. However, I DID see the plastic rail at the booth, and was VERY interested by it. Like others, I was manly thinking of building a continuous welded-rail train. Though, while a 45' train would wonderful, I am a bit more realistic and thought of an 8-10 flatcar train. |
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Axel Tillmann 1st Class Member
 Brakeman Send Message Posts:680

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| 01 Oct 2010 04:22 AM |
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Too bad, I would have loved to talk to you, hopefully the next time.
For your application I sell the Plastic rail in up to 18' length. It is being shipped in a pizza box right after your order, and after you receive it you can immediately unpack it and the rails will straighten out again. 18' is long enough for a 8-10 car flat car set. |
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| Axel
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gsawdy
 Passenger Send Message Posts:11

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| 03 Oct 2010 12:15 PM |
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Well, I guess this has become the "official" plastic rail thread. I just received my order of 200' of display track which will be my "operating" track. It will be my only track and used for live steam. This is a new venture for me--bought a used Frank S. (Anybody running live steam near Fall River or New Bedford MA?) and Axel's track. I plan to lay it out on the grass and give it a go, after I finish the HoneyDo list.
I'll keep you posted,
George |
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Pauli
 Passenger Send Message Posts:105

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| 05 Nov 2010 12:05 PM |
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Axel, How likely is it that you also will produce code 215 or 250 plastic rail? At least untill you "feel the market", producing your own matching tie strips wouldn't really be necessary, since a lot of others make them (and you could start by just reselling some). Stick to standard measurements though! Not like the homebrewed "narrow base" Llagas Creek code 250, with a base of 5mm, wich of course is the normal one for code 215. If you decide to make code 250, apply the standard base width. (I don't remeber if it's 6mm or something...) If you decide on code 215, design the spikehead as clever as Peco! Their gauge one track is only code 185 or 200 - yet all narrow gauge (LGB or any other) models that we run in Stockholm Livesteamers run on this track! This doesn't work on my Maerklin code 215!
As a livesteamer in 1:32, on code 332 rail, it just looks awful in my eyes. But at a fraction of the cost of brass, stainless - or even aluminium! - I can't help considering using your all-plastic track for some stretches. (Though all my switches are code 215) I've actually been wanting plastic track for years!
Maybee asking the livesteamers, you could get an estimation on how "big" code 215/250 live-steam & battery, is compared to code 332.
I hope your sales on plastic track is good! I think it's the future. Regards, Anders Grassman member of Stockholm Livesteamers
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| Member of Stockholm Livesteamers, Sweden
Owns Märklin gasfired BR89, BR18(S3/6) and alcoholfueled Aster P8 (BR38) |
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Axel Tillmann 1st Class Member
 Brakeman Send Message Posts:680

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| 05 Nov 2010 03:13 PM |
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I am considering code 250, should it be 5mm or 6mm rail foot? How many feet are you and potentially your friends interested in?
And everybody else - chime in.
Kind regards
Axel |
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Jerry Barnes 1st Class Member
 Conductor Send Message Posts:3898

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| 05 Nov 2010 03:23 PM |
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SVRR code 250 is 6mm base. It will fit in their ties, or the code 250 AML ties. |
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Click here to visit my
web site
PLEASE
NOTE: I have disabled private messages. Please use regular email juking (at) atcjet.net |
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Pauli
 Passenger Send Message Posts:105

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| 06 Nov 2010 04:41 AM |
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Axel, Assuming pricing much like the code 332, a suitable first order for me would be 150 foot rail & tie strips. I have another idea, that I really think you should investigate. I think it is entirely likely, that your plastic rail, could be conductively coated with for example nickel. Since you offer nickel plated brass, you already know that such a plating doesn't chip when you bend rail. I expect that would hold true also for nickel plated plastic rail, within reason. I think such plated plastic rail for the track power market, would still be cheaper than aluminium rail, and certainly only a fraction of the cost of brass or ss. Also, it would be conductivly superior to aluminium, brass or nickel silver. Finally, it might even be possible, though I really don't know, to nickel plate only the running surface of the plastic rail, adding yet another argument to go plastic.. If this is possible, the track would also have a superior realistic look, combined with huge price savings over the alternatives. If that wouldn't rock the market for track, I don't know what would! Actually, I would like this just for the looks, since I don't plan on ever operating track power. (Only plating the running surface requires figuring out a new way of electrically joining rail sections, if track power also is an objective.) That sayed, I will buy a smaller code plastic rail in any case, with or without nickel plating. Regards, Anders Grassman P.S. Maybee offering something along the lines of Llagas "Rail blender" castings = code transitional adapters, would be nice.
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| Member of Stockholm Livesteamers, Sweden
Owns Märklin gasfired BR89, BR18(S3/6) and alcoholfueled Aster P8 (BR38) |
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ConrailRay
 Passenger Send Message Posts:125

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| 06 Nov 2010 01:13 PM |
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@import url( http://www.mylargescale.com/Provide...s);@import url(/providers/htmleditorproviders/cehtmleditorprovider/dnngeneral.css);
Pauli,
Sticking with the 1/32 conversion of code 250 = 155lb and code 215=130lb rail, according to the rail charts I've looked at, 130lb base is nominally 6" and 155lb is stated at 6-3/4". However if a manufacture made rails with different width bases, then they would need to make different tie strips, and these are the expensive molds that wouldn't be economical to produce for each rail size given the volume of sales, which is probably why Llagas normalized there rail base widths. If SVRR were to come out with smaller rail, I'm sure they would make the base fit their current tie strips...
Also, I did some quick testing a few years back because I wanted 110lb rail, and Llagas 1/32 tie strips should be able to handle smaller code rail to a certain size without the spike heads interfering, but there's a lot of manufactures wheels with different depth flanges out there, and you'd have to have your own rail extruded.
-Ray |
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SE18
 Foreman Send Message Posts:1189

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| 08 Nov 2010 05:43 AM |
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These plastic rails would make a neat unit train loaded with long sections of rails (assuming they bend easily) Dave |
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Greg Elmassian 1st Class Member
 Engineer Send Message Posts:14797

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| 08 Nov 2010 09:48 AM |
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I think it's been done, I believe there is a thread here somewhere showing it. Greg |
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Be sure to visit my site, lots of technical tips and modifications, and you can search for topics and key words.
Click here for Greg's web site
Note: I'm tired of the acrimony too, so I may not respond or participate in these types of threads. You can email me privately so I can help you without conflict.
PLEASE NOTE: I have disabled Private Messaging, please use regular email: greg@elmassian.com
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Axel Tillmann 1st Class Member
 Brakeman Send Message Posts:680

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| 09 Nov 2010 07:26 AM |
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Posted By SE18 on 08 Nov 2010 05:43 AM These plastic rails would make a neat unit train loaded with long sections of rails (assuming they bend easily)
Dave For that purpose we sell the in 18' length order code MGR-5001L (10 pcs in a pizzabox). $ 105. We need to roll it up, otherwsie we can't ship it at all. |
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| Axel
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Semper Vaporo 1st Class Member
 Conductor Send Message Posts:4458

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| 09 Nov 2010 07:41 AM |
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Posted By Axel Tillmann on 09 Nov 2010 07:26 AM
Posted By SE18 on 08 Nov 2010 05:43 AM These plastic rails would make a neat unit train loaded with long sections of rails (assuming they bend easily)
Dave For that purpose we sell the in 18' length order code MGR-5001L (10 pcs in a pizzabox). $ 105. We need to roll it up, otherwsie we can't ship it at all.
Silly question time--- When it is rolled up, if you look down on the circles of rail, is it standing on the foot or on its side; and if on its side, is the foot toward the inside or the outside?
Also, is that $105.00 for 180-ft. of rail (90-ft. of track [sans ties])? |
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My train of thought was derailed -- there were no survivors.
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Axel Tillmann 1st Class Member
 Brakeman Send Message Posts:680

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| 10 Nov 2010 02:15 PM |
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Semper:
It is rolled up with the foot down.
And yes it is for the total of 180' of rail (track doesn't count here for the rail laying train since that train is carrying only rails)
Let me know if you have any further questions. |
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Greg Elmassian 1st Class Member
 Engineer Send Message Posts:14797

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| 10 Nov 2010 05:23 PM |
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I think it's rolled sideways, like how track is on a curve, not up or down like a roller coaster. I had to think about what you asked Semp, sort of confusing. Of course I could be wrong.. Greg |
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Be sure to visit my site, lots of technical tips and modifications, and you can search for topics and key words.
Click here for Greg's web site
Note: I'm tired of the acrimony too, so I may not respond or participate in these types of threads. You can email me privately so I can help you without conflict.
PLEASE NOTE: I have disabled Private Messaging, please use regular email: greg@elmassian.com
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Axel Tillmann 1st Class Member
 Brakeman Send Message Posts:680

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| 11 Nov 2010 06:17 AM |
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So to be more clear (hopefully) Lay down the rail with the rail foot on the ground, roll up now the rail - that's how it is shipped. Rolling it otherwise doesn't work because of the rail web. |
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| Axel
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