rlvette
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| 10 Dec 2011 10:17 AM |
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I'm digging in my back yard, but the bedrock must be really deep. Sure is a lot of water 3 feet down. What is fools gold going for these days? I think I just found the mother load. |
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jake3404
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Posts:594
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| 10 Dec 2011 10:29 AM |
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Ha ha Randy. It would seem that since real gold is around $2000 an ounce it would have to mean that Fool's Gold is gotta be worth at least half that, right??? |
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Deadwood & Black Hills Western
High Line of the Black Hills
Jake Smith, Chief Engineer - Hayward, SD
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blackburn49
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Posts:3333
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| 10 Dec 2011 01:23 PM |
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Site A is the apparent abandoned dredge location based on my most recent analysis. Site B is where I first believed the dredge was located. However, subsequent analysis makes this site less probable. Site C was the area I had originally marked as the furthest extension of dredging operations. The problem is that the valley is so narrow here that what appears to be dredge tailings piles are more likely remnants from a bull-dozing operation.
There is a second branch to Quartz Creek on the left, which is to the west. However, my analysis of the aerials does not reveal any likely massive dredging operations there. Instead, it appears that the entire area was disturbed by more conventional bull-dozing methods. On the other hand, the creek branch to the right contains the remains of a large dredge pond at what I now consider the practical limit at which a large dredge could have advanced up this gulch. I am no expert on this, of course. I can only make comparisons with similar operations within this same area. I have seen the size of these dredges and dredge ponds, both in the Yukon and in Alaska. In any case, I now believe that somewhere in the vicinity of Site A would be the most-likely location for the Gold Rush-Alaska claims. More maps to follow will show additional details. Be sure to click on this map for a closer view.
Also note that this site is indeed very close to the historic end of the Klondike Mines Railway line at approximately KMR MP 31, just west of Sulphur Springs, a gulch which leads into Sulphur Springs Creek.
The green line is the road to Dawson. The gold line is the end of the KMR railroad grade. There is also an orange line which was a historic road to Gold Bottom Creek. That road is now abandoned. I traced it in as a way of further solidifying the exact location of the Sulphur Springs wye--the historic turn-around point for the KMR.
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Ronald N. Simpson
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Copper
Center, Alaska |
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blackburn49
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| 10 Dec 2011 01:28 PM |
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This second Google-Earth map clearly shows the location of the KMR wye, which is as close to scale as I could get it. As you can see, the existing road (green) passes over the western part of that historic railroad turn-around. As you can clearly see, when viewing the larger map (click map image), the end of the KMR runs along the top of a narrow ridge. The wye was designed to turn the narrow gauge engine plus just four cars. The KMR used to make an annual passenger run to this point and hold a picnic at King Solomon Dome for the residents of Dawson and Grand Forks. They had two passenger cars, and possibly two additional open cars, to transport passengers. For a time, the KMR also ran stage lines from the end of the line at MP 31 to other points such as Hunker Creek, Readford on Quartz Creek and to camps along Sulphur Springs Creek. They also had a mail contract into these gold camp areas for a brief time.
Makes me want to get back into historic railroad modeling just going over all of this. |
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Ronald N. Simpson
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Copper
Center, Alaska |
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blackburn49
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| 10 Dec 2011 01:39 PM |
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Closer views of the likely area where Gold Rush-Alaska's Quartz Creek claims are located:
Site A includes the large dredge pond near the upper reaches of the east branch of Quartz Creek. The location of the abandoned dredge is unclear from these images, but typically the dredge would be left on the upper end of the pond. There is a likely point near Site A where this could be. Regrettably, no sign of this dredge pond has so far appeared in the series, but there would have to have been one, since these dredges were, in fact, large floating barges.
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Ronald N. Simpson
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Copper
Center, Alaska |
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carlferg
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Posts:11
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| 10 Dec 2011 07:02 PM |
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This show is identical to those real housewife shows only it"s a bunch of guys infighting. Damn, I can"t look away! |
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Mike Reilley
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| 10 Dec 2011 07:43 PM |
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Carl....there's only one way you can say that with knowledge....and I'd NEVER admit it....hehehehehhehe I do like the show...love folks that are entrepreneurial...however, some aspects of the show make me think it should be called "Dumb and Dumber"
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Ray Dunakin
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| 10 Dec 2011 10:05 PM |
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I've never even heard of this show before, but it's interesting to see the comments about it here, and even more interesting to see the stuff about the KMR. I do recall seeing the earlier thread you posted about that railroad. Neat stuff. Are you writing a book about the KMR?
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http://www.raydunakin.com |
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blackburn49
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Posts:3333
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| 10 Dec 2011 10:28 PM |
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Posted By Ray Dunakin on 10 Dec 2011 10:05 PM
I've never even heard of this show before, but it's interesting to see the comments about it here, and even more interesting to see the stuff about the KMR. I do recall seeing the earlier thread you posted about that railroad. Neat stuff. Are you writing a book about the KMR?
I have given this historic topic considerable thought over the last several years. The KMR would make an ideal backdrop for a new historic novel. The Klondike region, particularly Bonanza and upper Bonanza Creek, and the abandoned Native village of Moosehide, would be my first choice for a second book.
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Ronald N. Simpson
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Copper
Center, Alaska |
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blackburn49
Conductor
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Posts:3333
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| 11 Dec 2011 02:07 AM |
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Over time I have managed to piece the entire 31-mile KMR line together on a Google-Earth map. Here you see it in gold. The modern Bonanza Creek road is in light green:
Klondike area in a line drawing map, showing existing roads:
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Ronald N. Simpson
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Copper
Center, Alaska |
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blackburn49
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Posts:3333
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| 11 Dec 2011 01:47 PM |
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This is Klondike Mines Railway, Section 1, from the RR junction to Bear Creek complex--the "Guggieville Spur," MP 2.85 to Grand Forks, MP 13. The gold line represents the original KM RR grade and the green line is the existing Bonanza Road. Tracing the old RR grade and placing it on Google-Earth represented an interesting challenge. Very little of this segment of the old grade survived, especially from the Guggieville spur to the KMR Ry bridge. All of that was destroyed by mining operations within a few years after the KMR abandoned its right-of-way in 1913. Fortunately, two studies done in the last decade pin down most of this route and I was able to determine the location of the grade within a reasonable degree of accuracy. Most interesting to me was that the old RR crossing is gone and the new road crossing of Bonanza Creek is well upstream from the old crossing. Once the road crosses Bonanza Creek, however, it does closely follow the RR grade from that point to the site of Grand Forks.
It is this kind of research which is necessary to credibly construct a plan for historic recreation of an old railroad line. That way, at least, significant features can be found and included in the planned layout. Section 1 started at Dawson City, KMR MP 0, and ended at Grand Forks, MP 13. This is NOT the segment I would rebuild, but it was well worthwhile to attempt to retrace it. In any case, for those of you who have ever been there, or even plan on visiting the Klondike (WELL worthwhile) here it is. You WILL see elements of the old RR bed along the way, even in the section nearest the Guggieville turnout. I have not been there in decades, but I do recall seeing parts of that RR grade along the hillside along the way. I also recall seeing the old RR bridge that once led to Guggieville, which is a reference to the Guggenheim money that was behind that massive gold dredging operation of the 1920s and 30s.
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Ronald N. Simpson
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Copper
Center, Alaska |
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blackburn49
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| 12 Dec 2011 04:44 PM |
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I take it NOBODY else does this . . . |
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Ronald N. Simpson
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Copper
Center, Alaska |
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Torby
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| 12 Dec 2011 06:10 PM |
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Posted By blackburn49 on 12 Dec 2011 04:44 PM
I take it NOBODY else does this . . .
Nope, but it's fascinating how you do it. I spend all day fiddling the tiny details of ridiculous client demands. |
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| Electronic junk you never knew you needed:
http://www.barefootelectronics.com |
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rlvette
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| 12 Dec 2011 06:26 PM |
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Ron
I could try doing the same research of the railroads back home in WV, but who would care?
Alaska is exciting and you do such a great job bringing it to life, how could any of us compare?
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bnsfconductor
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| 12 Dec 2011 06:29 PM |
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Posted By blackburn49 on 12 Dec 2011 04:44 PM
I take it NOBODY else does this . . .
I don't, but its interesting to read about. My prototype I'm modeling still has tracks, so I can look at google earth a little bit easier to find the ROW... Interesting history lessons though!
Craig
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| BN 7th & 8th Subdivision Garden Railroad |
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tom h
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Posts:439
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| 12 Dec 2011 07:11 PM |
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Could never do that, dont have the know how, but I really really really appreciate when you do this, love reading about all the history you bring into it.
I for one dont want you to stop and encourage you to keep dong it.
Tom h |
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John J
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| 13 Dec 2011 07:55 AM |
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I agree with Tom. I always enjoy your posts. Please keep posting.
JJ |
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Ray Dunakin
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Posts:1407
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| 13 Dec 2011 11:16 AM |
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I love history, especially railroad history, and it's great to see something besides the usual Colorado NG stuff. Have you considered submitting an article about the KMR to the Narrow Gauge & Short Line Gazette? They often run historical articles on obscure short lines.
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http://www.raydunakin.com |
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Totalwrecker
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| 13 Dec 2011 01:59 PM |
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When I see your signature, your post goes to the top of the list.
Down here in civulizashun my boundaries are more closely defined; from home out to my favorite abandoned mines, 22 miles away. While I did research to see if they ever had rail service, nope, I did find out about The El Paso and Southwestern RR. It was built as competition to the SP and served the mining region south of Tombstone. It too passed north of my mines and ran parallel to the SP into Tucson. However in Vail there were loading docks on the EP andSW, for ore brought in by wagons.
My railroad has become a 'what if' rail replaced oxen? But it's near impossible to find old wagon trails where monsoons move so much top soil. Google earth shows the El Paso row, but nothing in likely trails knowing the up and down topography here.
You are a teacher and I'm a student...
John |
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| His friend Jerry Dillon looked up at the hillside and said, “There’s a big ledge, and the whole damned hill is a total wreck with quartz boulders of ore.”
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