rreiffer
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| 13 Feb 2011 03:38 PM |
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Looks like I will be spending some time in this forum! Anyway, I was wondering what are some good, low cost dcc decoders for large scale that can be purchased? I am looking at these for several Bachmann Annies, American's and Moguls that I already own. Not looking to put high end sound in these but to leverage some low cost sound modules or even the built in sound (basic chuff only). I have seen the much higher end ones with the Phoenix Sound etc but they are just too much for some of my low end engines.
I have seen some of the threads covering things like the MRC voltage limit but I was wondering what everyone thinks of NCE, Digitrax, MRC, Lenz and others? Thanks everyone.
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Rich Reiffer |
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Peter Osborne
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| 13 Feb 2011 04:06 PM |
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I think the MRC 1819 5 amp sound decoder which can be had for around $70 (http://www.jimsmodeltrains.com/-str...Detail.bok ) is a great option. The only drawback vs. the more expensive solutions is that auto=chuff is the only option and it uses 4 ohm speakers which are a little tricky to track down. But I've had good success after adjusting the CV's at getting to a very acceptable sync. Plenty of volume and enough functions for a simple steam loco conversion. I've also used the corresponding diesel version 1817 in my only diesel, a USA Trains NW-2 with great results. If you've got a lot of locomotives to convert, this is certainly something to consider.
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lownote
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| 13 Feb 2011 04:11 PM |
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I have used the Digitrax DH 465/Soundbug sfx004 combo. It supposedly can draw up to 4 amps, and the sound is reasonable--not as good as the high end, but reasonable. The motor decoders operate smoothly and silently. It's about 80 bucks for both together.
The limit is how much current the decoder can handle--do you have a way to measure the current your locos draw?
Digitrax non sound decoders for large scale are very good and can be had for around 50 bucks--see for example the DG583 |
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Bob in Kalamazoo
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| 14 Feb 2011 08:32 AM |
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Rich,
I'm using serveral of the Digitrax DG 583 non-sound decoders. Never had a problem with them. My only sound decoder is a QSI in my Mallet. If you ever wanted to borrow a DG 583 to try it out let me know. I have one that's just a spare in case I have a problem. I had to use it once in place of my QSI when that had to be sent in for repair for a couple of weeks last fall. We need to get together again soon anyway.
Bob
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MrDCC
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| 16 Feb 2011 06:32 AM |
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Rich - The first step is to do a stall current test on your locos. See my web site: http://www.mrdccu.com/curriculum/stall.htm Once you've established that, then you can select a decoder to accommodate your loco. In many instances, you don't have to use a "Large Scale" decoder. Just match the stall current (and running current) to the manufacturer's specifications. For example, the Lenz Gold decoders are rated for about 1-1/2 amps running and over 5 amp stall. This may handle some of your locos. They have great motor control and are small enough to fit inside an N-Scale Mikado tender, so are a breeze to fit into a large scale loco. There are many other options, but none with as wide an operating region as the Lenz. If your stall current measures less than 1-1/2 amps, you have lots of choices from the HO world, including the Tsunamis from SoundTraxx. I installed a Tsunami in a large scale steamer for a customer - don't remember the configuration just now - but it had a very efficient motor. It stalled at about 1 amp. With a 4 inch speaker in the tender, it was deafening! In the diesel world, the light board Tsunamis will work with similar stall currents and have a street price in the $80 range! |
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Bruce Petrarca, Mr. DCC
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Greg Elmassian
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| 16 Feb 2011 07:45 AM |
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Bruce, many people have had problems with the HO Tsunami at LS DCC voltages. In a nutshell, they overvoltage easily, and do not handle 1 amp at LS voltages even reduced.
You might read my experiences on my site under motivepower...Accucraft.... Casey Jr. .... I'm not the only person who has experienced this... also the "Quasinami" from Soundtraxx in the Bachmann 2 truck shay has the same problem. I used 5 diode drops and it finally stopped overvoltaging, then just overheating... a Zimo now runs that loco and no diode drops and no overheating.
Regards, Greg
p.s. I was thrilled with the Tsunami when it first came out, and waited 6 years for a LS version, and then gave up and went to QSI. |
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Be sure to visit my site, lots of technical tips and modifications, and you can search for topics and key words.
Click here for Greg's web site
Note: I'm tired of the acrimony too, so I may not respond or participate in these types of threads. You can email me privately so I can help you without conflict.
PLEASE NOTE: I have disabled Private Messaging, please use regular email: greg@elmassian.com
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MrDCC
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| 16 Feb 2011 08:11 AM |
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Of course, this thread has gone beyond the "basic" level! VBG
Alas, I, too have been fitting QSI. RATS! I HATE the whistle delay!
Greg - you gotta remember you are pushing the envelope voltage and speed wise. I'm testing most of my installations with the QSI programmer or my PowerCab (13 volts on the RRAmpmeter)!
BTW, all the good DCC dealers sell the RRAmpmeter, not just Tony! |
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Bruce Petrarca, Mr. DCC
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railcandy
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| 16 Feb 2011 08:28 AM |
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Speaking of DCC & Sound @ Greg Elmassian , I'm running analog track power from multipal 10amp DC power supplies. Also, my sound boards are all Phoenix Sound ones. I have no real experience with DCC control at this point and worry about the high amperage DC scortching the boards if I try one ? also I may feel like going to 15 or 20amp in the future.. So I guess my question is: Will the high amps on the track fry the DCC decoders and stuff ?
Perry |
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Making America better One Boxcar At A Time
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rdamurphy
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| 16 Feb 2011 09:03 AM |
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Yeah, Bruce, I hate, detest, can't stand, the whistle delay with the QSI's, also. Also with the bell. I hate pushing a button and having to wait 10 seconds for the bell to start or stop...
Robert |
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Dan Pierce
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| 16 Feb 2011 03:39 PM |
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Zimo has a 3 watt MX642 that takes well over 24 volts (dc dcc rating is 30 volts) and has lots of bells and whistles. Only 119.95. Check it out.
I installed one in the LGB stainz and it runs great.
I set the decoder to output function voltages to 18 volts (80 percent) via CV 60, then I set the heater element for the 18 volt smoke unit to 75% at idle, 100% on acceleration, and 90% for running (cv 137/139/138).
Remember that motors that stall at 2 amps on straight DC react much differently on decoders. With smoke, lights and a load of cars, I could not hit over .9 amps on my command station.
MX642 will handle motor at 1.5 amps and accessories at .8 amps for over a 2 amp total, peak rating for motor for 20 seconds is 2.5 amps. |
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Greg Elmassian
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| 16 Feb 2011 05:17 PM |
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Bruce, 13 volts DCC at the rails is way too low for 90% of LS... most locos need to have at least 18v on the rails, typical is 20-21 volts.
At that voltage, the Tsunami goes nuts.
Regards, Greg |
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Be sure to visit my site, lots of technical tips and modifications, and you can search for topics and key words.
Click here for Greg's web site
Note: I'm tired of the acrimony too, so I may not respond or participate in these types of threads. You can email me privately so I can help you without conflict.
PLEASE NOTE: I have disabled Private Messaging, please use regular email: greg@elmassian.com
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Greg Elmassian
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| 16 Feb 2011 05:21 PM |
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Robert, I get a little delay from the time I press the button, QSI whistle, but I can still do short bursts. You might tweak the number of "off packets" to speed things up.
On the bell, most QSIs have an air-operated bell, and the "delay" is hearing the air actuator start up, you hear the hiss and squeak of it starting, just like the real thing. You can select other bells that come on basically instantly.
Not defending the QSI, but these issues are not defects in my mind.
Regards, Greg |
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Be sure to visit my site, lots of technical tips and modifications, and you can search for topics and key words.
Click here for Greg's web site
Note: I'm tired of the acrimony too, so I may not respond or participate in these types of threads. You can email me privately so I can help you without conflict.
PLEASE NOTE: I have disabled Private Messaging, please use regular email: greg@elmassian.com
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Greg Elmassian
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| 16 Feb 2011 05:23 PM |
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Perry:
It's overvoltage that causes problems typically. If you get a short in the motor or motor wiring then you can fry a decoder, and indeed, if you have 10 amps sourced, it will make that much more smoke.
What I recommend is self-resetting "fuses" on the track pickups to avoid shorts in derailments (won't hurt the decoder but will fry pickup wiring).
Regards, Greg |
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Be sure to visit my site, lots of technical tips and modifications, and you can search for topics and key words.
Click here for Greg's web site
Note: I'm tired of the acrimony too, so I may not respond or participate in these types of threads. You can email me privately so I can help you without conflict.
PLEASE NOTE: I have disabled Private Messaging, please use regular email: greg@elmassian.com
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rreiffer
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| 16 Feb 2011 07:55 PM |
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Greg,
Is this how we get realistic BLACK smoke?  (albeit only for a few seconds!) |
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Rich Reiffer |
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George Schreyer
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| 17 Feb 2011 11:19 AM |
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No can do unless you want to light a heavy oil fire inside.... |
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- gws
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MrDCC
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| 17 Feb 2011 02:03 PM |
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Greg -
I am in narrow gauge in the 1930s - not many air actuated bells there!
No, I wasn't suggesting 13 volts for LS, just commenting on what 1.5 amps and 13 volts COULD do! |
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Bruce Petrarca, Mr. DCC
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