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berlyn k36 v accucraft k36
Last Post 13 Nov 2009 03:30 AM by tacfoley. 22 Replies. |
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daveyb
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Posts:42
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| 10 Nov 2009 04:27 PM |
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next year,,, after scrimping/saving,, and selling off my lgb stuff im looking to buy a k36,,, or a k37,, but a k36 is what i preffer,,,
my questions are,,
which one is considered the more accurate model,,, the accucraft version seems to be missing some valve gear rh side ,, the berlyn has it although it does look fragile,, is this why accucraft ignored it
which has the best performance
can you still get spares for berlyn,,
ive read something about rewiring the berlyn model and have seen the thread on the rebuiding of a k36 which had damaged motion,,
should the motion be reworked and what needs to be changed and why,,, any other recomendations,,
all knowledge greatfully received,,,,
cheers daveyb
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Dougald
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| 10 Nov 2009 04:35 PM |
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Dave
you might try a call to Jon Bliese one of our forum sponsors. Jon is the man behind Electric Steam Model Works http://www.rctrains.com/ and is knowledgeable of all things Accucraft and Berlyn.
Regards ... Doug |
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Doug Matheson
Manotick Ontario
SA #122 |
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CLRRNG
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| 10 Nov 2009 06:48 PM |
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Hi Dave,
I am the guy who had to rebuild the drive mechanism on the Berlyn. The Berlyn will need to be rewired. As well the pilot truck will need to modified (The plow bottoms out on every little wave in the track). The motion should be ok on a new Berlyn, just be aware of loose parts. The one I have jammed and had a broken motor mount. The transmission is suseptable to stripping gears. This did not happen to me but I heard from a friend that it can happen. I would also recommend battery power with some sort of rc equipment. Jonathen Bliese can help you out there. He supplies all my rc equipment.
I also have a Accucraft K36.
Both locos run equally similar.
Berlyn's are a little cheaper these days on Ebay.Accucraft is running special prices on the electric k-36 and k-37.
I feel more comfortable with the Accucraft.
If you are going to run your loco frequently and handle it often I would say go for the Accucraft.
If you are looking for a shelf queen that is detailed to the max, but will need lots of modifications and TLC, go for the Berlyn.
Something you should also consider is Accucraft is still in business and spar parts are available. Berlyn is not around to support your repair needs.
Best of luck
Glen
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daveyb
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| 11 Nov 2009 01:39 PM |
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thanks glen, i followed your loco on ebay and wondered what became of it when it failed to sell,,,, and i followed your thread,,, i really liked the loco when you initialy sprayed it black, looked really good,,,,
i probably will end up with the accucraft version,, but now i know theres a bit of motion missing on the LH side it will bug me!!
i think improving the faults can give you a lot of satisfaction though,, you must be really pleased with your efforts glen ,,
davey b |
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tacfoley
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| 11 Nov 2009 03:42 PM |
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Uh, now I could just be wrong here, but AFAIR the Berlyn model is in 1/22.5 and the AccuCraft model is in 1/20.3...
I'm sure somebody will put me right here.
tac
www.ovgrs.org |
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jimtyp
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| 11 Nov 2009 03:49 PM |
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If you want an Accucraft K-36, now is the time, they are having an inventory sale, I think 24% off and Jonathan's site shows he is matching that price: K-36
I'm not savvy enough to say how detailed the K-36 is but I've seen one, and it was awesome, and big. I have the Accucraft WLS Shay and the quality is excellent. Kevin Strong did an evaluation on the accucraft K-36 if you want to get even more info. |
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livin' la vida loco
Centennial, Colorado |
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San Juan
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| 11 Nov 2009 04:25 PM |
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Posted By tacfoley on 11 Nov 2009 03:42 PM
Uh, now I could just be wrong here, but AFAIR the Berlyn model is in 1/22.5 and the AccuCraft model is in 1/20.3...
I'm sure somebody will put me right here.
tac
www.ovgrs.org
Nope. Berlyn is 1:20.3 just like the Accucraft K-36.
KISS made the 1:22.5 K-36. I recently got one as we run 1:22.5. Beautiful loco and highly detailed. This is what it looks like: The strange red marker light lenses bugged me. So I fixed them:
I also ended up painting the tender steps and rerailers aluminum to better reflect the time period we model. |
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Matt
Click Here for photos of my train layouts |
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K27_463
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| 11 Nov 2009 04:33 PM |
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The Berlyn K36 (150 examples made) and k37 (100 examples) were produced in 1:20.3 and executed to a very high standard of accuracy. The models are really quite spectacular. The problem now is they were produced in 2000-2001 and there are not new any more. So,like a used car you get a mechanical device with unknown history. The Berlyn driveline has three critical problems, all of which are correctable. First , wiring, lighting and track pickups are more suitable for O scale and wil require replacement. This is why these locos are a good candidate for Battery r/c.Many Berlyn locos also included a sierra soundtraxx sound system with integrated lighting. These generally proved unsatisfactory as the chuff simply did not have the grunt required to do justice to the model. I have probably pulled 15-20 soundtraxx out at the request of clients over the years and replaced . Berlyn included a very large and high grade speaker, so they can be made to sound GOOD with the proper electronics driving .
Second, the main drive axle gear is a nylon press fit on a steel axle. There is no keyway or set screw. If you use it as a shelf queen or lightly loaded it will generally work. if you pull a train suitable for a big k, the axle gear WILL slip and fail . This can be fixed by drilling and pinning the axle gear and axle itself. A job for an experienced machinist. While I do not do this work myself, I have had this done on maybe 6-8 Berlyn k36 that have gone through this shop in the last few years. Expensive, but a permanent fix. The Berlyn k37 is similar but not exactly the same as a 36, and uses a brass final drive gear if my poor memory serves me on this point.
Lastly, the siderods and crankpins on the Berlyn locos are held in place by press fit pins- made of aluminum. They are not threaded or bolted. Since they do actually transmit power on these chassis, they are subject to stress. If they fail, even one, it renders the loco inoperable. They cannot be simply repressed. Again , the fix here is to make custom threaded bolt fasteners, drill and tap, and rebuild. This is also a service I have offered through a machinist. Again, not for the faint hearted, but a permanent fix for certain. The Berlyn uses a very fine Pittmann motor and a well designed reduction gearbox, so when done right, they run smoothly with proper scale speed range, and pull very well.
To own and run a Berly , one should be a good modeler, handy with soldering iron , and other hand tools and be prepared to tinker from time to time.
In comparison, the Accucraft driveline is bulletproof , and will run for years without attention. To bring an Accu k36 up to the standards of a Berlyn regarding model fidelity, would involve much additional detail, both externally and in the cab. Some items like piping are easy, but many things would need to be scratch built , fabricated, or bashed. This sort of modeling and enhancement is a matter of taste and the individual modeler can go as far as they wish in this area. Of course, having a Berlyn k36 sitting for reference next to the table where you are working on your Accu k36 is the best solution of all...  jonathan/EMW www.rctrains.com
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daveyb
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| 11 Nov 2009 04:53 PM |
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ahhhh ,, so i need to buy two now!!! one of each,,,
thanks johnathan,,,,,, looks like its stale bread and gruel for the next 5 years,,,,
or i could sell a kidney etc,,,
davey b
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CLRRNG
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| 11 Nov 2009 06:00 PM |
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Dave,
I sold my Berlyn awhile back. I did plan on keeping it but due to finances going from poor to VERY poor I was forced to sell it. I do still have my Accucraft and very happy with it.
Glen |
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TJH
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| 12 Nov 2009 12:20 PM |
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what is the us availability of the KISS K-36? price? turn radius requirements? |
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tacfoley
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| 12 Nov 2009 03:36 PM |
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Thanks for putting me right there about the scale of the Berlyn K-36, and thanks for the information about the need to get a genuinely skilled model railroad engineer to almost totally rebuild the various elements of the drive train of the Berlyn model if you dared to run it on real track rather than admire the wondrous detail on the shelf.
Now I know why I have the simple, made for morons, simplified AccuCraft cartoon models that just bear a fleeting resemblance to the real thing - THEY WORK!!
I was hauling fifteen of the new Bachmann hoppers over at main131's track a couple of weeks ago for a couple of hours or so, and dang me if nothing fell off.
Again.
tac
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daveyb
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| 12 Nov 2009 04:11 PM |
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sorry to hear that glen, at least you have the satisfaction of bringing it back from the dead,,,,
even if you buy second hand its a scarily expensive hobby,, particuarily when your soul is taken by those dark huge brass black monsters that want to sit on your shelf,,,,,
and then there lonely and they send out subliminal messages for you to buy them a freind to keep them company,,,
before you know it you need more shelves,,,,,
then you need a bigger house,,,
why couldnt i have collected spoons or star wars figures,,
ho hum
davey b
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San Juan
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| 12 Nov 2009 04:49 PM |
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Posted By TJH on 12 Nov 2009 12:20 PM
what is the us availability of the KISS K-36? price? turn radius requirements?
There are three versions of the KISS K-36. D&RGW #489, Durango & Silverton, and Cumbres & Toltec. I was interested in the D&RGW painted version. It seems most others who purchased this loco also wanted the D&RGW version as they are sold out from KISS direct. The availability on the D&RGW version is pretty much non existent in the US. In fact the only dealer in the US that I can think of that might have one is Gold Coast Station (in California). I ended up getting mine from Big Train World (Netherlands). The advertised minimum turning radius is LGB R2. I tested my loco coupled to the tender on a circle of LGB 1500 curves and it went around and around the circle with no problems. It doesn't look particularly great doing so as it overhangs the tracks a bit. But it can negotiate a circle made up of 1500 curves. I think these are R2?
If anyone has any other specific questions on the KISS K-36 send me a private message or email me. |
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Matt
Click Here for photos of my train layouts |
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Anthony Duarte
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| 12 Nov 2009 05:06 PM |
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If you're still considering the Accucraft k-36 and live in california... you may want to avoid sales tax by getting yours from Sunset Valley Railroad: www.svrronline.com. they have it for $4 less than RC trains (woopie!) and you won't have to pay CA sales tax since they're in Washington... Sales tax would still be an extra $249, which is much more than shipping costs from a little ways up north.
But if you're not from california it won't make a bit of difference. |
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zubi
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| 12 Nov 2009 05:50 PM |
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Terry, there is a simple solution if you wish to run a highly detailed model of the K-36. Get a KISS model. It is one of the most detailed on the market, runs very well and has an amazing sound system, the best I have ever heard. Plus, it is in the proper 1:22.5 scale!! Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi |
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Anthony Duarte
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| 12 Nov 2009 06:06 PM |
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Posted By zubi on 12 Nov 2009 05:50 PM
Terry, there is a simple solution if you wish to run a highly detailed model of the K-36. Get a KISS model. It is one of the most detailed on the market, runs very well and has an amazing sound system, the best I have ever heard. Plus, it is in the proper 1:22.5 scale!! Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi
Seems like 1:22.5 being the "proper" scale is a bit debatable... it just depends on whether or not you want something to scale, or something that's not abnormally large. 1:20.3 is more accurate to represent 45mm as 3 foot gauge. |
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zubi
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| 12 Nov 2009 06:19 PM |
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Anthony, of course I want something to scale. And that scale is 1:22.5 Best, Zubi |
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steam5
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| 12 Nov 2009 07:00 PM |
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If it was ‘proper’ 1:22.5 it wound not run on 45mm track.
This has been some good notes regarding two fine manufactures. This is a question I have wondered, thanks for asking.
The KISS model is fantastic looking! You have a little gem Matt. Out of interested where is the KISS model built? In Europe somewhere, China, Korea, Japan…
Alan
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zubi
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| 12 Nov 2009 07:05 PM |
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Alan, Kiss models are made in Korea, to *proper* 1:22.5 scale, and they all run on 45mm track;-) Best, Zubi |
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CLRRNG
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| 12 Nov 2009 08:47 PM |
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Dave,
That is pretty funny about the Star Wars figures. If you started collecting those figures when they first came out and kept them in the original unopened boxes you could buy a few K's of any manufacter....lol
I am going to convert my Accucraft over to AirWire w/battery power and sound soon. I was really happy with what battery power performance did for the Berlyn. If you ask me batteries are the way to go. With the ever increasing battery technology you can't go wrong.
Hey check out Ebay there is a Berlyn listed....says it is new??
Later
Glen |
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San Juan
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| 12 Nov 2009 09:10 PM |
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Here's a link to the Berlyn K-36 on eBay: I really like the cab roof vent cover. Something you don't see too often on any K-36 model, even high end HOn3 models. Nice and accurate touch if it fits your era. |
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Matt
Click Here for photos of my train layouts |
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tacfoley
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| 13 Nov 2009 03:30 AM |
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Ahem. Changing the subject just a teeny bit, from the unaffordable [in my case] to the easily attainable [again, in my case] those paupers among us who have to make do with the poor simple approximate representations of Colorado steam can comfort ourselves that over here in UK a company called Brandbright make a set of accessories for the popular 16mm scale stuff we have over here that includes a very finely-wrought miniature replica of a brass padlock, made, in suitable fashion, in brass.
It is a perfect fit for the roof-mounted tool box to be found on the AccuCraft simplified but affordable model of the K-27 number 453.
Thank you.
Now back to the thread.
tac
www.ovgrs.org
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