Richard,

I like the "charlie noble" shown in the photo at the top of Kauila's stack. It make's one appreciate what a rain downpour can really be like.

Will the conversion be 7/8th's or 1:20.3?

Steve

That's an interesting question Steve, I was going for a 1:20.32 scale,,, why do you ask?
Also, here's another question for you, would they have kept the "charlie noble" on top of the stack after converting her to oil?

Richard,

Kauila's low boiler profile, saddle tank, and TALL chimney looks very much like Argyle Loco Works' "Bantam". I wondered if Ruby's boiler is too high to get the same effect.

If Kauila were standing still in a real downpour without the charlie noble maybe she would get enough water down the stack to partially flood that tiny smokebox and the lower flues. Not sure whether an oil fire would be less affected than coal, but it couldnt be good.

Steve

Looks like a "Mortimer" would be an easier engine to "bash".

Rick,

Bob Paoa and I do not believe that picture in NSH is OR&L #6 but rather a plantation engine. Check Conde's "Sugar Trains Pictorial", If I recall correctly there is an early picture of #6 while she was still an 0-4-0. She's pulling a small flat with a barrel. The saddle is reversed also at some point in her life.

Jeff Livingston
Kaneohe, Hawaii

Steve,
Thanks for pointing that out, looks like I'm going to have to figure out a way to lower the boiler.
Bill,
I'd have to take you word on that, but the point isn't ease, the point is modeling an engine that is of historical importance to me. I know I may only be able to approximate the appearance of Kauila in order to have an engine that runs, but, I'm willing to sacrifice accuracy for function, since I'm green where steam is concerned
Jeff,
Yeah, I was not able to locate that exact pic in STP, but I did find several from earlier periods that show the reverse tank. If you look closely on the pic above, you can also see that the tank is reversed. On all the pics the boiler was lower than the Ruby boiler. I may not be able to lower it to within the same scale measurements as Kauila, but I will try to get as close as functionally possible to that height. I have one thing going for me, the wheels on the Ruby are about 1.3 scale inches too big, Kauila's wheel size was 28" so the scale will be off a little, but I think I'm going to have to live with that, if I want the model to run well.

The boiler can be lowered around 3/16" or so without too much trouble. I did it on my Tuscarora Valley #2 conversion. You get rid of the small saddle, and bend the steam pipe down below the boiler to clear.



You'll have to build a new saddle, but that's part of the fun, also.

Later,

K

k,
What did you do with the linkage to the Johnston bar? (forward and reverse lever?)
Bill,
Right now, I'm in the planing stage, I've been taking the parts out and trying to determine what can be modified without impacting the performance of the model. As soon as I get into the actual modifications, I will include pics. BTW, if anyone has pointers they care to share with me, or warnings, I am more than happy to receive them. If it looks like I'm doing something that is just not feasible from a steam mechanics point of view then let me know. For example, the new cylinders are cool, but the outside surface where the steam chest meets the top of the mount, looks like I can flatten that our a tiny bit to look even more prototypical. I notice that quite a bit of it is cut away on the inside surface to make way for the mounting bracket. Will that weaken the cylinder? Mind your I only need to take off about less than a 1/16". And if that's okay, what about rounding off some of the sharp corners around the steam chest? Not much, more like a bishopiing or brazing the sharp corners?

It stilll runs under the boiler as stock. I think I rebent it a bit to better fit in the new cab, but that's it. The steam line runs just to the side of the reverse rod.

Later,

K

I've got a question for some of you experts out there. I've heard I can bake the paint at 122 F for 30 minutes. Does that include the valve chests?

Hey Richard,
I know you ask for opinions from experts, but I can tell you what I did on my Ruby to Mason Bogie bash. I used plain old Krylon spray cans, primed and then color coat. I painted my valves and cylinders bolted together as a single unit. I baked the paint at 295 F for two hours. The painting was documented on pages 4 and 5 of my post. http://www.mylargescale.com/Communi...fault.aspx

I am NO expert, as this was my first locomotive of any type. The paint has held up well and I had no problems baking at 295 F.
Hope this helps.
redbeard AKA Larry Newman SA #1956

Since the cylinders and valves opperate at more than 200deg F there should be no problem baking paint. I do start with a cold oven so the parts warm up more uniformly. As for rounding of the corners of the valve chests, that is OK, I did it on my Forney. I don't quite understand what you are trying to flatten. I do think that in most cases you can hog out quite a bit as long as you don't get too close (like less than 1/16 inch) to steam passages or screw holes and leave plenty of surface for gaskets.

Thanks Winn, Larry. I won't need to hog out more than 1/32 and no where near the gasket. I'll put up some pics when I'm done.
In the meantime, I want to document a mistake I made on the first post of this thread. As it turns out NSH, mislabeled that engine. It is not Kauila. The size of the boiler, the boiler supports, the cab and front coupler pocket are all wrong for that engine at any time period. Also, she does not bare the road acronym for OR&L on her tank or the number 6 anywhere. I will post some real images of her around 1906 if I can find them. If not, I will post some excellent shots that Jeff Livingston took of her in her present condition.
I have a spec sheet arriving sometime this week and I will post more information on her for those interested in modeling an engine of that classification. I have this small bit of information for now.
Kauila is a 4-10- 1/2-C class engine built June 1889 by Baldwin.

Realizing that I should test run the cylinders before I got things painted and had take the cylinders apart or something,,,,well, actually I just got antsy and had to see em run

You can't tell but those little wheels are spinning like crazy under 30 psi. I tried forward and reverse and they both work great on the little rig.
I spent the better part of the morning assembling the running gear and tuning it up. 2 things were minor frustrations and in all honesty I sort of liked that I had to do something extra for a change.
1. The cylinder shaft on the new cylinders are exactly 1/8" in diameter, while the shafts on the old cylinders are less than a 1/64" under (My only calibers are starett, but they are for cabinet makers and only go to 1/64. I'm going to have to get a decent set of machines calibers if I'm going to keep doing this)
I had to drill out the cross head by hand using a pin vise and then ream the finish hole just slightly.
2. The valve rods are weak on the model. They are made of brass and bend way too easy and the threads ended up being too big for the valves and the lock nuts. The kit shipped with some tools. Fortunately one of the tools was the appropriate size tap for taping the valves and the nuts. To tell you the truth, I would have prefered the right size die, so I could work on the threads of the valve rods, the valves are stainless steel and a bear to tap.

Those problems aside and much too my amazement and glee, she works,,, and works well I might add, in reverse as well as forward! You can't tell from the photo above, but those wheels are spinning like crazy. I can not convey the excitement at watching this model work! It was like Christmas morning when I was 6 years old and got my first train set. I had to tear myself away to get the camera and post this update.

The orignal piston rods are 3mm but some were also 1/8" The replacements are 1/8" Like you did a 1/8" bit in a hand chuck is all you need as its a difference of .007"

Glad that you are happy with them.

Jason,
Thanks, and thanks for hooking me up with them. I'm not just happy with them I am ecstatic!

Congratulations!!! It really is a great feeling to have an engine run when you get it together!!! When you get it run in a little and everything is set right it should run on 5 PSI or so. Did you reverse the valve timing as per Dave Hottman? Make sure it gets plenty of oil when running on air. The easiest way to do that is to squirt some into the intake line before hooking up the air line.

Thanks Winn,
I don't know if its Royce's cylinders or just dumb luck but the thing just started going as soon as I turned on the air at 20 psi.
I did find one thing out while I've been playing around, and don't remember reading this anywhere (although with my memory I could have) If I mess around with the forward and reverse valve a little I can change the speeds of forward and reverse. As it turns out, despite what the instructions say, using that line scribed around the forward and reverse valve as a guide, if you push the valve in, just a hair past the line, it will go faster in forward than if it's lined up perfectly. If you pull the valve out till it stops and then just barely push it in, it goes fast in reverse. Maybe that's normal?
One question, while I had the frame running under 15 psi, I decided to check for vacuum leaks,,, I mean pressure leaks since this is not internal combustion. I put a little soapy water around the valve chest and the cylinders and noticed that there are a few bubbles forming.
Is that normal?
Will it seal up tighter once the cylinders are hot?
I don't have a miniature torque wrench, and if I did there's nothing in the instructions about the torque pressure. I did follow a cross pattern when tightening the screws down. The leaks don't seem to impact the performance, to check this, I put a piece of melamine on the flanges and pressed up lightly just till the frame lifted and the wheels didn't slow down or hesitate at 20 psi, but they did slow down at 5 psi. Is that the leak?
If the leak is a critical concern at this point how do I fix it without risking stripping the screws?

I took the cylinders off this morning in preparation of painting them. I decided while I had them off, to try the stock Ruby cylinders so I would have a reference to compare Royces cylinders too. After all, this is my first live steamer and I really am clueless.
WOW! what a major disappointment the stock cylinders are. They didn't start spinning till 26 psi or more. I even tried turning them over by hand as instructed in the manual. Nothing, reverse worked at 20 psi just fine,,, in fact reverse was faster at any pressure.
I tried to run them at 3 psi, 6 psi and they wouldn't budge. They made a sort of jerky motion at 10 psi, but ran smoothly in reverse. Tinkering with the forward and reverse valve made little difference in forward.
I've got to say that if you are planning on purchasing the Ruby, you may want to consider the upgraded cylinders, especially if this is your first try at Live Steam. I made no mods to the running gear and she runs excellent with the upgrade cylinders. That might change when I hook up the boiler, but I think I can rule out the running gear if I encounter performance problems when I install the boiler.

The wheels appear to be the same size its just that the tires are VERY worn down in the later pictures.

East,
Good catch, I didn't notice that. I did some calculations (the best I could with grainy pics) and we have a known dimension which is the wheelbase. The wheels on both are approximately 23.134 inches (Due to the graininess and a shaky hand this measurement is about 99.999% accurate) So taking that measurement in mind, the older image shows drivers 27.445 inches + or - and the newer image shows drivers 25.51 inches + or -. That's almost 2 inches of wear! Is that possible?