Dwight Ennis
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 | | 24 Dec 2009 04:38 PM |
| I popped into Accucraft today to wish them all a Merry Christmas, and while I was there I shot a few photos of the new Climax prototype. Once again, I apologize for the poor lighting. Cliff's test track sure isn't set up for photography, especially with a small aperture. At close range, flash photos wash out. The plumbing on this thing is damn cool! The cab is a little tight for R/C. I suggested to Cliff they move the steam gauge to the other side in front of the lubricator to clear the space for a reversing servo. I also shot one of the Alice, Accucraft's entry into 4-3/4" gauge live steam... Additionally, with the Alice, Cliff has re-entered the world of ride-on live steam (kicking and screaming to hear him tell it - hehehe) with the purchase of a used 7-1/2" gauge SP Mogul, which he showed me today. He already has the front and rear driver sets removed and out for duplication. He says she's old and has been run to death, but knowing Cliff, he'll soon have her ship-shape and back on the rails!  Merry Christmas to everyone at Accucraft and everyone on MLS!!! | |  Dwight Ennis
Milpitas, CA
SA #21
http://www.NPCRR.com
http://www.SantaCruzLumberCo.com
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tacfoley
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Posts:1428
| | 24 Dec 2009 04:55 PM |
| Dwight - some great pix there, Sir! Looks like a real winner, too. I'd like to see some kind of protection over the transfer hypoid gear though - just to ensure a longer life and to guarantee the retention of a suitably robust lubricant. The detail on the loco though is remarkable, and me and the vulture are already deeply in love! It's got nice simple valve gear, too, just like all the other 'Stephenson' valve gear types - with very little to go amiss. I concur with your recommendation to move the pressure gauge over as well - I can see the lure of r/c-ing this great-looking model.
tac
www.ovgrs.org
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Gary Armitstead
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Posts:1386
| | 24 Dec 2009 04:57 PM |
| Merry Christmas to you Dwight. That Climax looks very nicfe.
Looks like the "ride-on" bug is catching quite a few folks. I love it! Once you get it, you'll never go back to the "little" stuff. | | 
Gary Armitstead
Burbank, CA.
Los Angeles Live Steamers
SA #4449 | |
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Dwight Ennis
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rkapuaala
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Posts:1167
| | 24 Dec 2009 06:57 PM |
| That is really sweet detail on that climax. | | 
I keep forgetting we're not in Kansas! | |
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Kovacjr
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Posts:748
| | 24 Dec 2009 07:41 PM |
| Odd they decided on going with Piston valves and piston reverser as they listed it with D Valves on the website and from my conversation with Cliff.
Dwight how was the gearing? Did it run slow while still have the fast sound of the motor? What do you think is the bore of the cylinders? A smaller bore 10mm bore would work fine with the gearing and still keep the steam consumption low.
Detailing looks really nice except the headlight they took from the Shay, Always looked odd. Like its too tall or something | | 
Jason Kovac
Lakewood, NJ | |
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Dwight Ennis
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| | 24 Dec 2009 09:01 PM |
| I didn't see it run Jason. It 's Christmas Eve and I had plans, and they had plans...  Oh, btw, I forgot to mention... I bought a 91 section of Accucraft's 7-1/2" gauge track. It's perfect for the RAV - all aluminum and very light weight. I'm going to cut the rails in half and make two sections to lay in the back for rolling the loco and tender on for transport to and from GGLS.. | | Dwight Ennis
Milpitas, CA
SA #21
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http://www.SantaCruzLumberCo.com
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zubi
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Posts:369
| | 25 Dec 2009 04:18 AM |
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Posted By Kovacjr on 24 Dec 2009 07:41 PM
Odd they decided on going with Piston valves and piston reverser as they listed it with D Valves on the website and from my conversation with Cliff.
Jason, yes, I noticed it too. That immediately places the engine in the lower price range, but I ordered one (and pre-payed) based on the original specifications... Now I am not even sure if I want one if it is going to be fitted with a reversing block instead of the proper Stephenson valve gear with D-valves as announced and priced for. Best, Zubi | | | |
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Dan Pantages
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Posts:279
| | 25 Dec 2009 02:32 PM |
| Yes, as a dealer I see this is going to cause a problem. I had just sold one and now that the customer has seen this post, he has told me, "If it’s not “D”-valves with Stevenson valve gear, please cancel the order". On their web-site they are still advertising it with the "D" valve and Stevenson gear. | | Dan Pantages
Bear Creek Railroad
Aster & Accucraft Live Steam Sales
Sunset Valley Track & Accessories | |
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Kovacjr
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Posts:748
| | 25 Dec 2009 06:06 PM |
| There should be no issue with D Valves and the C16 setup for valve gear. Though I really see no reason they cant do it correctly either, just that they dont want to. If they do it once its the same for every loco they build. They all have the same 4mm valve travel and as long as the distance of the link is the same distance on all the locos from the axle it will fit across all the models.
I used to think Stevenson valve gear was a real pain to model but after reading a few valve gear books and seeing it on 2 of my locos I have no problem tackling it on a future project. | |
Jason Kovac
Lakewood, NJ | |
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tacfoley
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Posts:1428
| | 26 Dec 2009 02:33 AM |
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Posted By Kovacjr on 25 Dec 2009 06:06 PM
There should be no issue with D Valves and the C16 setup for valve gear. Though I really see no reason they cant do it correctly either, just that they dont want to. If they do it once its the same for every loco they build. They all have the same 4mm valve travel and as long as the distance of the link is the same distance on all the locos from the axle it will fit across all the models.
I used to think Stevenson valve gear was a real pain to model but after reading a few valve gear books and seeing it on 2 of my locos I have no problem tackling it on a future project. The valve gear seen in the new Climax is not really anything but an on-and-off steam timer, as you know, and cannot, in truth, be described as anything like the double eccentric, die link and lifting link components of true Stephenson valve gear, as seen on a number of models, including the large scale Hunslet pictured above. Using a block-type reversing valve is far cheaper to produce, although there is no possibility of ensuring a measured cut-off, as would be possible in a true variable timing design, like Walschaert/Baker/Cossart/Heusinger, Stephenson or even the Allen derivative. So this little loco has bottom of the pile valve gear, as found on Ruby, both Shays, and of all the British outline models made by AccuCraft except the new 'Countess'.... I'd still like one, and, not having read the blurb that preceded the sales, I'm not being misled by it. Oh dear, it looks suspiciously as though I'm being informative again - must stop this instant.  tac www.ovgrs.org | | | |
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Kovacjr
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Posts:748
| | 26 Dec 2009 07:57 AM |
| Tac This is from the Accucraft website. Just a note on every othe accucraft loco its labeled simulated Stevenson. Cliff could not confirm as he only saw the GOD drawings that are posted on the site until one showed up in front of him. | SPECIFICATIONS | | | | Scale/Gauge | 1:20.3 Scale/ 45mm Gauge | | Minimum Radius | 1.2 M (48 in.) | | Fuel | Butane | | Cylinder | Two Cylinders w/ D-valve | | Valve Gear | Stevenson valve | | Working Pressure | 50 PSI | | Fittings | Throttle, Check valve, Water level gauge, Pressure gauge |
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Jason Kovac
Lakewood, NJ | |
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JoelB
Passenger
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Posts:63
| | 26 Dec 2009 08:24 AM |
| A few thoughts:
-- First impressions of this model are very positive. IMHO, AC has gotten the proportions and the distinctive "look" of the early-20th century "B" class Climaxes exactly right. The Michigan-California engine appears in the builder's list as a 35-tonner, but this design could pass for any of the numerous 36-, 40- and 42-ton engines Climax produced in a variety of gauges, all to a standard pattern. Nice to see at long last a model that's not based on a one-of-a-kind prototype.
-- I've seen two prototype Climaxes in preservation, and each of them had a fairly crude sheet-metal box mounted to the frame underneath the cross shaft gearing. No idea whether it came that way from the factory or was fitted later.
-- The big letdown for me was seeing the block-type reversing valve. I have one of the new Countess engines -- the first engine I'd ever owned with D-valves, and I was surprised at how big a difference it makes. On the other hand, the AC Shays both have the reversing block setup, and from what I've read, it doesn't seem to be a huge disadvantage with a geared engine. My other concern is where the reversing valve is situated, with shafting, frame members and tubing all in the way; not the easiest task to adjust if you get one that came from the factory out of whack.
My two cents' worth.
| | Joel
SA #115 | |
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tacfoley
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Posts:1428
| | 26 Dec 2009 03:26 PM |
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Posted By Kovacjr on 26 Dec 2009 07:57 AM
Tac This is from the Accucraft website. Just a note on every othe accucraft loco its labeled simulated Stevenson. Cliff could not confirm as he only saw the GOD drawings that are posted on the site until one showed up in front of him.
| SPECIFICATIONS |
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| Scale/Gauge |
1:20.3 Scale/ 45mm Gauge |
| Minimum Radius |
1.2 M (48 in.) |
| Fuel |
Butane |
| Cylinder |
Two Cylinders w/ D-valve |
| Valve Gear |
Stevenson valve |
| Working Pressure |
50 PSI |
| Fittings |
Throttle, Check valve, Water level gauge, Pressure gauge |
Jason, I'm not disputing with you or anybody else, least of all Cliff, who has been very helpful to me in the past, even at a distance of 6000 miles. The only similarity between Stephenson valve gear and the version seen on the AccuCraft models I noted is the final rocking arm that actually actuates the valve travel - the rest is pure fixed eccentric with no possibility of adjusting or notching up the valve timing. True, the visible rocking arm is similar in appearance to that seen on any Stephenson valve gear loco, but the inside gubbins is not. I have built five British outline live-steam locomotives in my life, from 2.5" to 7.25" gauge, and four had Stephenson's valve gear. The simplicity displayed in the new AccuCraft model hasn't put me off in the least, and I'd still be very happy to own one. tac www.ovgrs.org | | | |
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xo18thfa
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Posts:1017
| | 27 Dec 2009 11:50 AM |
| Any word on the gear ratio of this engine? The 90 degree hypoid looks 1:1 and the skew bevels look like 3:1. Probably no land speed records for this guy. | | Bob Sorenson
Las Vegas, Nevada
SA #13
"Goals are dreams with deadlines"
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Kovacjr
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Posts:748
| | 27 Dec 2009 01:37 PM |
| Going off the Aster Climax it has a 1:2.8 and to is not designed for slow speed running. I think Mike Chaney ended up doing a 4:1 gearing on his Climax if my memory is correct and that is a nice slow runner. | |
Jason Kovac
Lakewood, NJ | |
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Smokey_2
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Posts:1
| | 25 Feb 2010 08:55 AM |
| Has anyone seen any pictures of the finished (painted) Climax? | | | |
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Dwight Ennis
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Shaymaker
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| | 02 Mar 2010 04:57 AM |
| Posted By Kovacjr on 27 Dec 2009 01:37 PM
Going off the Aster Climax it has a 1:2.8 and to is not designed for slow speed running. I think Mike Chaney ended up doing a 4:1 gearing on his Climax if my memory is correct and that is a nice slow runner. It was a bit higher than that to match the 1'2" x 19/32" cylinders - 1:3.06 in fact and I used the correct skew bevels on both the trucks AND the crankshaft (note that the crankshaft gears are opposite handed to the truck gears) to keep the lineshaft substantially level. The valve gear was Stephenson's with 80% maximum cut-off.
I had to do it properly as I'm not clever enough to design locos which look right - but aren't. Mike | | | Mike Chaney | |
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